ᐅ Comparability of Costs: Architect vs. General Contractor
Created on: 4 Mar 2021 16:57
A
askforafriend
Hello dear forum,
We are currently in the planning phase for a single-family house. We have requested quotes from several general contractors and have also spoken with a very approachable architect. We would be happy to present our building project (BVH) in detail at a later stage!
Overall, we much prefer the transparency and approach of the architect compared to the initial consultation with the general contractor. We understand that over time, we will also speak with an architect/planner through the general contractor who will discuss details with us. We have thoroughly researched the advantages and disadvantages both in this forum and through various guides.
At this stage, our main focus is on comparing the cost estimates from the general contractors versus the architect. The general contractor states the costs as a fixed price (based on the building and scope of services description) plus our additional requests (extra electrical outlets, KfW standard, etc.). A rough total for the house including additional requests was, for example, 410,000 euros. This naturally also includes architectural/planning/engineering services according to the scope of work description.
Land leveling.
Discussions about your building project together with you during planning and construction meetings. Preparation of building permit/planning permission documents at a scale of 1:100 in the required number of copies for the authorities.
You will receive an additional set of plans for your personal records.
Development of working drawings (scale 1:50) as well as any necessary detailed drawings.
Creation of structural engineering plans (standard structural design for the respective house type) including any required building physics reports for thermal and fire protection.
Calculation of energy demand and preparation of the energy performance certificate. A copy will be provided for your records.
Preparation of public funding applications, if required.
Site management and construction supervision up to handover of the house.
Support during the warranty period.
When we first met with the architect, he took out a book labeled BKI to provide a rough estimate of the feasibility of the building project based on this data. He calculated roughly 3,000 euros per square meter and 150 square meters (1,615 square feet) of living space, resulting in a total of 450,000 euros.
The big question now is: Does this amount exclude his fees or do these average construction costs per square meter already include the services mentioned above? This might be a somewhat naive question, but it’s really unclear to us. Is there a list of costs that are included in these average rates?
We have an appointment with him next week for a more detailed cost assessment.
Thank you very much for your feedback, and I wish you a pleasant week.
We are currently in the planning phase for a single-family house. We have requested quotes from several general contractors and have also spoken with a very approachable architect. We would be happy to present our building project (BVH) in detail at a later stage!
Overall, we much prefer the transparency and approach of the architect compared to the initial consultation with the general contractor. We understand that over time, we will also speak with an architect/planner through the general contractor who will discuss details with us. We have thoroughly researched the advantages and disadvantages both in this forum and through various guides.
At this stage, our main focus is on comparing the cost estimates from the general contractors versus the architect. The general contractor states the costs as a fixed price (based on the building and scope of services description) plus our additional requests (extra electrical outlets, KfW standard, etc.). A rough total for the house including additional requests was, for example, 410,000 euros. This naturally also includes architectural/planning/engineering services according to the scope of work description.
Land leveling.
Discussions about your building project together with you during planning and construction meetings. Preparation of building permit/planning permission documents at a scale of 1:100 in the required number of copies for the authorities.
You will receive an additional set of plans for your personal records.
Development of working drawings (scale 1:50) as well as any necessary detailed drawings.
Creation of structural engineering plans (standard structural design for the respective house type) including any required building physics reports for thermal and fire protection.
Calculation of energy demand and preparation of the energy performance certificate. A copy will be provided for your records.
Preparation of public funding applications, if required.
Site management and construction supervision up to handover of the house.
Support during the warranty period.
When we first met with the architect, he took out a book labeled BKI to provide a rough estimate of the feasibility of the building project based on this data. He calculated roughly 3,000 euros per square meter and 150 square meters (1,615 square feet) of living space, resulting in a total of 450,000 euros.
The big question now is: Does this amount exclude his fees or do these average construction costs per square meter already include the services mentioned above? This might be a somewhat naive question, but it’s really unclear to us. Is there a list of costs that are included in these average rates?
We have an appointment with him next week for a more detailed cost assessment.
Thank you very much for your feedback, and I wish you a pleasant week.
askforafriend schrieb:
I agree – we visited the general contractor (GC) and looked at a standard model house. The price listed was $333k for the house including the basement, according to the construction scope description. We then went through a few points and made some changes – suddenly the price was $439,000 🙂 What kind of changes were made that ended up adding about $100k to the final price?
I think I read somewhere in this thread that building with a GC often turns out more expensive. I’m really curious how that happens. I have a fixed price with my GC, or rather a price that results from the upgrades selected. So, the house should be “complete.” As far as the GC is concerned, all costs should be clear upfront.
I also have a standard model house and slightly modified the floor plan, which was no problem and didn’t incur extra costs — basically just shifted some walls around. Any extras that were included upfront by the house salesperson were kindly double-checked during the upgrade selection process and removed again if unnecessary. For example, a wall removal initially charged at about $600 was credited back, and the window calculation even brought an $800 credit. There were a few other such items. With those credits, I immediately ordered other additions, such as reinforced walls in the attic or electric roller shutters.
Everything I arranged directly with the trade contractors, I commissioned without involving the GC or having the GC add any extra margin — contrary to what you sometimes hear. That meant the GC was out of the picture. For example, the standard staircase still needed a finishing treatment. I could have upgraded this via the GC for $800. Instead, I contacted the staircase company directly, and they offered the finishing for about $255 net. Plus, metal rods for $232 net and a landing post positioned directly by the stringer instead of offset (standard) for $70 net. In total, I paid significantly less ($681) and got much more.
Also, I asked the GC for a pre-wall installation in the bathroom for the washbasin and around the bathtub, which would have cost just over $1,000. Instead, I arranged this directly with the drywall contractor — for those two items plus boxing in the utility room for a pipe coming down from the bathroom ceiling and drywall work around the roof window, he received $400. Similarly, for the roof window, the GC quoted roughly $1,300, but the local roofer only charged a bit less directly. So I hired my own roofer from the area, who installed the roof window for $1,000 at the same time as the GC’s roofer did the roofing, including the snow guard.
I don’t mean to criticize anyone, quite the opposite, but I am often surprised by what some of your companies are charging. Honestly, some of the things I read make me raise my eyebrows.
Of course, I’m not talking about things outside the GC’s scope, like utility connections or sewer work, which are very individual anyway.
We built a turnkey home for around 200,000 all-inclusive without land, working with a general contractor (GC); this wouldn’t have been possible with an architect. This works when your personal preferences align closely with the GC’s standard approach. We wanted solid masonry walls, which the GC always builds. We chose aerated concrete, which is the only material the GC uses. We wanted a bungalow, and the GC builds many bungalows. We wanted good quality materials but no unnecessary extras. The GC is very down-to-earth and doesn’t like to sell any frills. So, concrete roof tiles rather than clay tiles. PVC windows instead of aluminum or mahogany. A front door, not a security lock system with video surveillance. Tiles, not oversized formats.
If you want to build like this, the GC will always be more cost-effective. Additionally, the plot of land must be suitable for a standard house: not too steep, and neatly rectangular.
If you want to build like this, the GC will always be more cost-effective. Additionally, the plot of land must be suitable for a standard house: not too steep, and neatly rectangular.
Andre77 schrieb:
What kind of changes led to ending up with 100K more on the clock in the end?As for how it happened in the OP’s case, I can only guess.Andre77 schrieb:
I think I read here in the thread that when building with a general contractor, the costs always ended up higher. I would really be interested in how that actually happens?How that happens – my guess:Andre77 schrieb:
I have a fixed price with the general contractor,The fixed price isn’t the catalog price. Sure, you can build at that, but then you still have additional construction-related costs on top. Some homeowners (here) mistakenly include those costs when calculating. So there are already differences in the statements.Further, the general contractor names provisional items, whether you accept them or not.
It may be that the OP has a contract price of 330,000 including the basement according to the scope of work, but in conversations saying “I want this, I want that,” such as controlled mechanical ventilation, a larger hot water tank, a different heating system, better energy efficiency (KfW standard), plus a double garage and top-quality roller shutters, then the general contractor’s final list of additional construction costs ends up at 439,000.
Andre77 schrieb:
So as far as the general contractor is concerned, all costs are actually clear beforehand.Additional construction-related costs depend on the plot of land. But some here mistakenly include those in the calculation.The markups on items, the “small ones” you can arrange directly with the subcontractors, can also be checked with the general contractor at first: for us, a “GC socket” cost 30€ or so, but with the electrician it was only 19. So the 30 would be charged upfront; for 50 extra sockets, that’s 1,500. If you add all these items on top of the basic catalog house, it can easily push the “fixed price” up by a third or a quarter.
Our catalog house was listed at 150,000 according to the scope of work. With direct changes, an open ceiling space (void), choice of plaster, windows, and KfW energy standard upgrades, we were at 185,000. With the garage, 195,000. If we had had every change and tile upgrade priced out, we would probably have ended up at 205,000. Then adding additional construction-related costs of 20,000 and starting a thread here, I would be talking about 150,000 // 235,000.
P.S. What you should know: anything you handle through the general contractor has a 5-year warranty, whereas via the subcontractors only 2 years.
ypg schrieb:
You can initially ask the general contractor about the additional costs for the "small" items, the ones you can negotiate directly with the tradespeople.Is this approach acceptable for most general contractors? Should something like this be clarified with the general contractor beforehand to avoid them feeling bypassed? Or is this considered routine?
launy10 schrieb:
Do you need to clarify something like this with the general contractor (GC) in advance so they don’t feel bypassed? I actively requested this from our GC beforehand, before finalizing the contract and financing.
He provided me with the list of subcontractors, and where necessary, I arranged on-site appointments to review the standards. This was especially insightful in the bathroom area. You can classify "moderate" finishes at around 5,000 euros (about $5,400), or consider 20,000 euros (about $21,600) as an absolute minimum, barely above affordable housing standards.
If the GC hadn’t allowed me to do this, it would have been a deal breaker for me, and I told him so. I need to be able to properly plan my construction project, and these questions are an essential part of that for me.
launy10 schrieb:
Is this approach "okay" for the majority of general contractors (GCs)? Should something like this be clarified with the GC in advance to avoid them feeling bypassed? Or is this standard practice? Most prefer not to deal with the nitty-gritty details. Too many warranty claims: here this breaks, there that moves, detaches, falls off, and then the call goes to the GC. By contacting the tradesperson directly, they are no longer involved.
For electrical outlets, they still gave us a price. For the additional drywall work, it was clearly communicated that we can contact the workers directly for this and that. The same applies to plumbing.
Unfortunately, we had the riser steps done through the GC because it was part of the house due to the storage room and could not be changed later.
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