ᐅ Comparability of Costs: Architect vs. General Contractor
Created on: 4 Mar 2021 16:57
A
askforafriend
Hello dear forum,
We are currently in the planning phase for a single-family house. We have requested quotes from several general contractors and have also spoken with a very approachable architect. We would be happy to present our building project (BVH) in detail at a later stage!
Overall, we much prefer the transparency and approach of the architect compared to the initial consultation with the general contractor. We understand that over time, we will also speak with an architect/planner through the general contractor who will discuss details with us. We have thoroughly researched the advantages and disadvantages both in this forum and through various guides.
At this stage, our main focus is on comparing the cost estimates from the general contractors versus the architect. The general contractor states the costs as a fixed price (based on the building and scope of services description) plus our additional requests (extra electrical outlets, KfW standard, etc.). A rough total for the house including additional requests was, for example, 410,000 euros. This naturally also includes architectural/planning/engineering services according to the scope of work description.
Land leveling.
Discussions about your building project together with you during planning and construction meetings. Preparation of building permit/planning permission documents at a scale of 1:100 in the required number of copies for the authorities.
You will receive an additional set of plans for your personal records.
Development of working drawings (scale 1:50) as well as any necessary detailed drawings.
Creation of structural engineering plans (standard structural design for the respective house type) including any required building physics reports for thermal and fire protection.
Calculation of energy demand and preparation of the energy performance certificate. A copy will be provided for your records.
Preparation of public funding applications, if required.
Site management and construction supervision up to handover of the house.
Support during the warranty period.
When we first met with the architect, he took out a book labeled BKI to provide a rough estimate of the feasibility of the building project based on this data. He calculated roughly 3,000 euros per square meter and 150 square meters (1,615 square feet) of living space, resulting in a total of 450,000 euros.
The big question now is: Does this amount exclude his fees or do these average construction costs per square meter already include the services mentioned above? This might be a somewhat naive question, but it’s really unclear to us. Is there a list of costs that are included in these average rates?
We have an appointment with him next week for a more detailed cost assessment.
Thank you very much for your feedback, and I wish you a pleasant week.
We are currently in the planning phase for a single-family house. We have requested quotes from several general contractors and have also spoken with a very approachable architect. We would be happy to present our building project (BVH) in detail at a later stage!
Overall, we much prefer the transparency and approach of the architect compared to the initial consultation with the general contractor. We understand that over time, we will also speak with an architect/planner through the general contractor who will discuss details with us. We have thoroughly researched the advantages and disadvantages both in this forum and through various guides.
At this stage, our main focus is on comparing the cost estimates from the general contractors versus the architect. The general contractor states the costs as a fixed price (based on the building and scope of services description) plus our additional requests (extra electrical outlets, KfW standard, etc.). A rough total for the house including additional requests was, for example, 410,000 euros. This naturally also includes architectural/planning/engineering services according to the scope of work description.
Land leveling.
Discussions about your building project together with you during planning and construction meetings. Preparation of building permit/planning permission documents at a scale of 1:100 in the required number of copies for the authorities.
You will receive an additional set of plans for your personal records.
Development of working drawings (scale 1:50) as well as any necessary detailed drawings.
Creation of structural engineering plans (standard structural design for the respective house type) including any required building physics reports for thermal and fire protection.
Calculation of energy demand and preparation of the energy performance certificate. A copy will be provided for your records.
Preparation of public funding applications, if required.
Site management and construction supervision up to handover of the house.
Support during the warranty period.
When we first met with the architect, he took out a book labeled BKI to provide a rough estimate of the feasibility of the building project based on this data. He calculated roughly 3,000 euros per square meter and 150 square meters (1,615 square feet) of living space, resulting in a total of 450,000 euros.
The big question now is: Does this amount exclude his fees or do these average construction costs per square meter already include the services mentioned above? This might be a somewhat naive question, but it’s really unclear to us. Is there a list of costs that are included in these average rates?
We have an appointment with him next week for a more detailed cost assessment.
Thank you very much for your feedback, and I wish you a pleasant week.
W
WilderSueden11 Mar 2021 20:31Nordlys schrieb:
What does KfW standard mean? The Energy Saving Ordinance is met by every standard house; otherwise, it would not be approved. Proof of this by an energy engineer is part of the building permit / planning permission application. What do low ceilings mean? Rooms are supposed to have a height of 2.4 meters (7.9 feet), if I recall correctly. Therefore, every building has sufficiently high ceilings. What does FHZ in the basement mean? For many of us, a basement is completely optional, and if there is one, it is not necessarily heated or only heated with radiators, since it is not intended for living purposes. What does ventilation mean? A ventilation system is a nice-to-have, not a basic standard. The normal case is windows that can be opened. I am not willing to see your extras as state of the art given the dozens of new buildings in our area. They are and remain extras. There will hardly be a building without extra wishes, but those are individual preferences. It depends on where you are building. In many areas, KfW55 is now mandatory, as well as photovoltaic systems on the roof. Then the builder really has no choice. And on the topic of ventilation... it is absolutely crazy to build efficient houses (and I also include the Energy Saving Ordinance in this) and then constantly have to open the windows in winter, letting the heat escape again. You might as well leave out half of the insulation. Nowadays, I don't really consider building houses without a ventilation system to be sensible. And in the end, it does not matter whether things are standard, required by regulation, or just the builder’s wish. What counts is the price that results from the builder’s wishes, and some providers already have a system of using air heating and factoring in the upgrade costs. But you don’t have to build with them if you don’t want to.I assume that with a reputable and reliable provider, a standard house should be approved, suitable for year-round living, and properly ventilated. In our case, this meant that the prefabricated house system was standard, the gas condensing boiler combined with solar thermal energy, continuous exhaust ventilation in the bathroom with trickle vents in the window frame, triple-glazed branded windows, a Ytong wall structure with a 30cm (12 inches) plan block and plaster finish. The building easily meets the energy saving ordinance requirements; with a heat pump instead of gas, KfW 55 standard would be achievable.
What is NOT standard, and what I do not expect, includes roller shutters, colored windows, painted interior doors, two-layer brick cladding, mechanical ventilation with heat recovery, photovoltaic systems, geothermal or pellet heating, clay roof tiles, just to name a few features that are important to some but come down to personal taste. I drive a basic Golf; it has exactly two extras, four doors, and a 110 hp engine with six-speed transmission. Otherwise, it’s basic. Yet it is still a complete car. Just as a comparison.
What is NOT standard, and what I do not expect, includes roller shutters, colored windows, painted interior doors, two-layer brick cladding, mechanical ventilation with heat recovery, photovoltaic systems, geothermal or pellet heating, clay roof tiles, just to name a few features that are important to some but come down to personal taste. I drive a basic Golf; it has exactly two extras, four doors, and a 110 hp engine with six-speed transmission. Otherwise, it’s basic. Yet it is still a complete car. Just as a comparison.
WilderSueden schrieb:
It depends on where you build. In many areas, KfW55 is now mandatory, as is a photovoltaic system on the roof. Builders then have no other choice. Nordlys schrieb:
I assume that with a proper and reputable provider, a standard house is approvable, suitable for year-round living, and properly ventilated. I agree with Karsten!
The standard model is the basic version. The house meets energy-saving ordinance standards. Everything else can or must be added.
It’s like with cars: one brand, three models, all available in the base version. Packages are offered: comfort, sports, technology... everything else is available modularly.
Instead of automatic climate control, some need an air conditioning system (mechanical ventilation with heat recovery). Tinted rear windows (triple glazing) are mandatory, just like fog lights (higher ceilings) and ashtrays (pantry). Both versions are roadworthy and habitable.
If I live and drive in the Harz region, there is an upgrade that has to be included: winter tires instead of all-season tires / photovoltaic systems as a requirement in new development areas.
askforafriend11 Mar 2021 22:2011ant schrieb:
Regarding underfloor heating in the (non-living) basement, I generally only have one comment: "Meanwhile, children are starving in Africa"! (oh wait, no, actually a second one: "The rich like the Romans always fell due to decadence"). By the way, it will be a full living basement, so there should be heating just like in the rest of the house 😉
And hopefully the comment about "children starving in Africa" is meant as some kind of joke – otherwise, you wouldn’t be allowed to do so many things (and certainly wouldn’t be able to build a detached house at all 😉)
ypg schrieb:
That’s why I write €2000 per m² (about $200 per sq ft) for absolute standard with plaster and a very compact construction. Some here criticize me for that price, claiming I am way too high. As if I were trying to annoy them or set the prices myself 🙄
In the end, though, they want the full extra package for less. Yes, I’ve noticed here in the forum that when people say "my house only cost XX amount," it’s a classic apples-to-oranges comparison.
Nordlys schrieb:
I assume that with a proper and reputable builder, a standard house can be approved, be suitable for year-round living, and have proper ventilation. For us, that meant underfloor heating was standard, the gas condensing boiler with solar thermal system, continuous exhaust ventilation in the bathroom combined with window vents, triple-glazed branded windows, a Ytong block wall construction with 30cm (12 inches) plan blocks and plaster coating. The building easily meets energy saving regulation standards, and with a heat pump instead of gas, KfW 55 (energy efficiency standard) would be achievable.
What is NOT standard, and what I don’t expect, are roller shutters, colored windows, painted interior doors, two-shell brick cladding, controlled mechanical ventilation, photovoltaic systems, geothermal heating, or pellet heating, clay roof tiles—to name a few things important to some but ultimately personal preferences. I drive a basic Golf; it has exactly two extras, four doors, and a 110 hp engine with a six-speed transmission. Otherwise basic. Still a complete car. Just as a comparison. Everyone should do it how they want 😉 But this always leads to the same discussion: I’m sure you can build a fairly simple house quite easily with an architect, without a lot of frills – because you decide on the budget and how it’s done, right?
askforafriend11 Mar 2021 22:23WilderSueden schrieb:
And regarding ventilation... it’s absolutely crazy to build efficient houses (and I include energy-saving regulations in that) and then constantly open the windows in winter, letting the heat escape. You might as well leave out half of the insulation. Nowadays, I don’t really see any point in building houses without ventilation systems.
That’s exactly what we’re thinking about our KFW70 semi-detached house, where we are currently still renting. It’s terrible in winter, the air quality is awful. Unbearable. We only have decentralized ventilation in the entire living, dining, and kitchen area, and one in the bathroom. After 8 hours in the bedroom, nobody should come in from outside, they’d pass out. I’m surprised we’re still alive 😀
Similar topics