Hello,
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
R
R.Hotzenplotz7 Jan 2018 20:12By “calculating,” I meant performing cost-effectiveness analyses of different heating types to establish a basis for comparison.
I wouldn’t say I’m leaning toward an air-to-water heat pump. I can live with either option. Subjectively, I feel slightly more drawn to gas. But in the end, I want to weigh it purely from an economic perspective. For that, someone first needs to evaluate the available offers and combine that with the running costs.
I’m already searching for energy consultants. The company that conducted the heating load calculation also offers energy consulting, but they seem very focused on heat pumps. It’s unclear how closely they are connected to the general contractor’s installer, who absolutely does not want to sell a gas heating system.
The energy provider also offers energy consulting services:
google: rheinenergie Energieberatung
I wouldn’t say I’m leaning toward an air-to-water heat pump. I can live with either option. Subjectively, I feel slightly more drawn to gas. But in the end, I want to weigh it purely from an economic perspective. For that, someone first needs to evaluate the available offers and combine that with the running costs.
I’m already searching for energy consultants. The company that conducted the heating load calculation also offers energy consulting, but they seem very focused on heat pumps. It’s unclear how closely they are connected to the general contractor’s installer, who absolutely does not want to sell a gas heating system.
The energy provider also offers energy consulting services:
google: rheinenergie Energieberatung
When calculating, make sure to discuss with the general contractor (GC) beforehand. Do you still have or need a chimney? Or will it be credited?
Also, consider ongoing costs such as chimney sweeping, maintenance, and so on.
Especially with future energy prices, it remains a gamble.
The best measure is to insulate as well as possible. However, due to high costs, this is often not economical—at least not when working through a GC.
What is important, whether you use gas or a heat pump, is that the underfloor heating system is properly designed. Because beyond operating cost efficiency, this keeps you flexible and allows you to switch to a heat pump in the future.
Also, consider ongoing costs such as chimney sweeping, maintenance, and so on.
Especially with future energy prices, it remains a gamble.
The best measure is to insulate as well as possible. However, due to high costs, this is often not economical—at least not when working through a GC.
What is important, whether you use gas or a heat pump, is that the underfloor heating system is properly designed. Because beyond operating cost efficiency, this keeps you flexible and allows you to switch to a heat pump in the future.
R
R.Hotzenplotz7 Jan 2018 20:44No, we don’t need a chimney otherwise. In any case, we had installed a duct for photovoltaic preparation, which would now be used for the solar pipes.
Maintenance is certainly more expensive with the heat pump. Waterkotte doesn’t have a service partner on every corner. For a gas heating system, you can find a qualified technician nearby who can drop by quickly. I’ve experienced the same with our Nibe system here. Nothing comes under €300 (about $320) for a service visit. The landlord is making a fortune from this. And then comparison sites often state maintenance costs of around €100 (about $110) for a heat pump. Yeah, right...
Maintenance is certainly more expensive with the heat pump. Waterkotte doesn’t have a service partner on every corner. For a gas heating system, you can find a qualified technician nearby who can drop by quickly. I’ve experienced the same with our Nibe system here. Nothing comes under €300 (about $320) for a service visit. The landlord is making a fortune from this. And then comparison sites often state maintenance costs of around €100 (about $110) for a heat pump. Yeah, right...
R
R.Hotzenplotz7 Jan 2018 21:05If a heat pump is not properly adjusted, it only causes problems. So many people have been working on it and tinkering around. It's unbelievable. And everyone says something different and claims to know the best way to set up the heat pump.
The gas/solar solution also seems promising, based on what I found while searching for experiences with the Vitodens 200f. Oh man.
The gas/solar solution also seems promising, based on what I found while searching for experiences with the Vitodens 200f. Oh man.
Setting up a heat pump is quite a task and should be left to the heating specialist. There’s a reason why there is a user menu and a professional access mode. I also don’t want just anyone “who thinks they know better” to tamper with my system. However, there are a few settings that can and should be adjusted after moving in.
During the final inspection, I received a detailed briefing from the manufacturer!
During the final inspection, I received a detailed briefing from the manufacturer!
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