Hello,
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
R
R.Hotzenplotz25 Jan 2018 22:37No, I know. On the other hand, the brine heat pump they have isn’t bad either. Waterkotte Geo 1.
R.Hotzenplotz schrieb:
If it becomes like in Denmark, where installing gas heating systems in new buildings is no longer allowed, demand will drop significantly while supply will remain stable for decades. But of course, you can’t completely rule out a Russia-related risk.Gas turbine power plants – take a look at Kiel.
That’s the “good” thing about electricity: it can be generated from many different energy sources. This creates price stability in production. The rest depends on transit (which will probably get more expensive due to the “energy transition”) and especially taxes and fees. The latter can be controlled by the government.
Gas is just gas. Biogas is extremely expensive and, as of today, no one really wants it (farm subsidies exist because farmers can no longer manage on their own). Prices can double within a year if you look at the past. Whether that will happen again… who knows. At least the link to oil prices is no longer there, otherwise the doubling would have occurred within the last 1.5 years—just like with oil.
S
Silent01026 Jan 2018 12:25Without having read the previous posts in this thread:
We installed a gas heating system. According to the energy saving regulations, it is mandatory to include solar. This was the most affordable option for us in terms of both the purchase price and ongoing costs.
The main reason for our choice was the outdoor unit of the split heat pump, which we did not want either behind or in front of the house.
We installed a gas heating system. According to the energy saving regulations, it is mandatory to include solar. This was the most affordable option for us in terms of both the purchase price and ongoing costs.
The main reason for our choice was the outdoor unit of the split heat pump, which we did not want either behind or in front of the house.
Lumpi_LE schrieb:
No one knows what will happen with gas prices, given the dependence on Russia it could quickly become 100% more expensive. This is not supported by historical evidence. Over the past 60 years, neither West Germany nor East Germany had a more reliable foreign energy supplier. And this was during the Cold War, when the stakes were much higher than they are now. Compared to those times, even Putin appears to be a "thoroughly democratic" leader. "The Russians" actually plan to expand their export capacities in the coming years.
In terms of supply security and price stability, I would be more concerned about the OPEC cartel and its member states governed by Sharia law.
I can only agree with that. With higher prices, Gazprom and others would only be shooting themselves in the foot, and since Russia needs the money and still has plenty of supply, not much will change in the next 20 to 30 years.
P.S.
Gas prices in Russia are downright ridiculous compared to ours here.
P.S.
Gas prices in Russia are downright ridiculous compared to ours here.
R
R.Hotzenplotz15 Feb 2018 11:37The energy consultant who performed the thermal insulation calculation for our new build recommends a gas/solar system. He says that during the lifetime of the heating system, we would not achieve cost recovery with the ground source heat pump.
This assessment is based on a cost difference of €6,000 (about $6,600) in favor of the gas/solar heating system (drilling and gas connection costs are included).
He also mentions that an above-average hot water consumption would tilt the balance even further toward gas/solar, since the heat pump heats up too slowly and therefore requires correspondingly large water storage tanks.
This assessment is based on a cost difference of €6,000 (about $6,600) in favor of the gas/solar heating system (drilling and gas connection costs are included).
He also mentions that an above-average hot water consumption would tilt the balance even further toward gas/solar, since the heat pump heats up too slowly and therefore requires correspondingly large water storage tanks.
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