Hello,
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
R
R.Hotzenplotz6 Jan 2018 18:37Wow, that surprises me. I thought the recommendation would clearly lean towards gas....
But it’s good to know that no junk was selected.
But it’s good to know that no junk was selected.
R
R.Hotzenplotz6 Jan 2018 19:40I still don’t understand why there is a distinction between air-source heat pumps and air-to-water heat pumps.
If the unit is good, I’m not fundamentally against a heat pump. I’m just skeptical because we had a bad experience with the Nibe F 750 in our rental apartment. However, some things went wrong during installation. The ventilation system wasn’t even properly adjusted at the start.
I don’t think the heat pump is significantly more expensive compared to gas according to the general contractor. When I see comparison examples online with calculations for heat pumps versus gas, the investment costs for gas and solar are usually much lower than for the heat pump, unlike in our case! What are roughly €2,500 (about $2,700) difference? I’ve read about differences more than twice as high.
I need to find someone on Monday who can calculate this for me. I can live well with either option and would then choose the one that is most likely to be cheaper. If after 10 years the costs are roughly equal, I would probably lean towards gas since I don’t expect price increases like with electricity. If it looks different, a heat pump could definitely be an option.
Otherwise, I was initially rather against a heat pump because I once read (unfortunately I can’t find the source anymore) that a pure air-source heat pump is not necessarily suitable for a house our size.
If the unit is good, I’m not fundamentally against a heat pump. I’m just skeptical because we had a bad experience with the Nibe F 750 in our rental apartment. However, some things went wrong during installation. The ventilation system wasn’t even properly adjusted at the start.
I don’t think the heat pump is significantly more expensive compared to gas according to the general contractor. When I see comparison examples online with calculations for heat pumps versus gas, the investment costs for gas and solar are usually much lower than for the heat pump, unlike in our case! What are roughly €2,500 (about $2,700) difference? I’ve read about differences more than twice as high.
I need to find someone on Monday who can calculate this for me. I can live well with either option and would then choose the one that is most likely to be cheaper. If after 10 years the costs are roughly equal, I would probably lean towards gas since I don’t expect price increases like with electricity. If it looks different, a heat pump could definitely be an option.
Otherwise, I was initially rather against a heat pump because I once read (unfortunately I can’t find the source anymore) that a pure air-source heat pump is not necessarily suitable for a house our size.
R.Hotzenplotz schrieb:
I have the problem that I still don’t understand why a distinction is made between air source heat pumps and air-to-water heat pumps.The operating principle is basically the same: extracting energy from the provided medium. However, the medium itself is completely different — either air or water.
As a result, the efficiency of air source heat pumps is, to put it simply, much lower compared to air-to-water heat pumps.
Additionally, air source heat pumps tend to stop working at certain subzero temperatures because they can no longer extract enough energy from the air. In contrast, air-to-water heat pumps continue to operate effectively well below freezing.
R
R.Hotzenplotz6 Jan 2018 21:55The architect also mentioned yesterday that there is a heating system that requires access to groundwater, and if I want, we can inquire about it.
But why, if the linked device is already described as an air-to-water heat pump?
But why, if the linked device is already described as an air-to-water heat pump?
I believe this is just imprecisely worded.
It’s bad if the energy source is the house’s exhaust air, yet it’s still called an "air-based heat pump." It’s also problematic if the heat is delivered into the house through the air; that would be an "air-to-air heat pump." This is simply uncomfortable. It’s common in passive houses, where it makes sense, otherwise not.
What is probably meant by "air heat pump" is simply an air-to-water heat pump, like the one you linked.
Energy from groundwater is a water-to-water heat pump and is the most efficient option available. Very good! But rarely feasible. Municipalities often don’t like the idea of drilling into groundwater and installing a probe.
It’s unfortunate that the general contractor charges an excessively high price for the surface collector (or trench collector). Both the collector costs and the earthworks are way overpriced. This type of geothermal system is also supported by BAFA funding; I believe around 4,000 € (about $4,000).
It’s bad if the energy source is the house’s exhaust air, yet it’s still called an "air-based heat pump." It’s also problematic if the heat is delivered into the house through the air; that would be an "air-to-air heat pump." This is simply uncomfortable. It’s common in passive houses, where it makes sense, otherwise not.
What is probably meant by "air heat pump" is simply an air-to-water heat pump, like the one you linked.
Energy from groundwater is a water-to-water heat pump and is the most efficient option available. Very good! But rarely feasible. Municipalities often don’t like the idea of drilling into groundwater and installing a probe.
It’s unfortunate that the general contractor charges an excessively high price for the surface collector (or trench collector). Both the collector costs and the earthworks are way overpriced. This type of geothermal system is also supported by BAFA funding; I believe around 4,000 € (about $4,000).
Similar topics