Hello, we currently have a somewhat unusual problem. We hired a carpenter to install a staircase, who had done some work on the house before and was generally okay. The removal of the old staircase and installation of the new one were supposed to happen on the same day.
To my surprise, the man showed up alone. I thought, okay, maybe his colleague would come later, but instead he said, "Can you hold this for a moment?" and shortly after, "Can you give me a quick hand here?" My husband is easygoing, and we realized the man wouldn’t be able to manage on his own. At the same time, the staircase needed to be installed urgently, and we just wanted to get the job done.
In the end, my husband spent half the working day helping, and the carpenter still didn’t manage to complete the installation; there simply wasn’t enough time (to be precise, he didn’t even start installing). As for removing the old staircase, a lot was left unfinished as well.
So, he left us without a staircase, though at least there was a ladder in the opening, allowing us access to the upper floor, and he said he would come back “some time,” as he was very busy at the moment... Some time later, when it was about scheduling the installation, I gently asked if he planned to bring a second person, since helping out wasn’t agreed upon. He said that if we didn’t want to help, he could bring his neighbor “for a small extra fee,” as the neighbor owed him a favor...
We found this whole situation completely outrageous and told him that we would give the job to someone else. We had not agreed to help; the contract was for the carpenter to handle the removal and installation completely by himself, for which he was being paid. Having neighbors working here unofficially would hardly be acceptable.
The end result was that he charged us double for the removal, including the cost of a temporary railing at the stairwell to prevent falls (in my opinion, it is his responsibility to secure the site if he leaves it half finished, which was already a breach of contract). He took the wood for this from us but still charged us for it, which completely crossed the line.
Under no circumstances do I see any reason to pay him the agreed fee for removal since he had us help for hours and only completed part of the work himself. After I told him this, he said he would immediately take the matter to a lawyer. I have already sent the corrected invoice (which I adjusted myself: deducting 40% of the labor cost, removing the railing costs and the wood) and will see what he does. But I suspect this carpenter deserves the “Golden Raspberry” of the trade in 2014.
I don’t have a direct question, as this is not a legal advice forum. But I am curious if any of you have ever experienced something like this, or as a tradesperson have expected or demanded (or included from the start) that the client acts as a free helper.
To my surprise, the man showed up alone. I thought, okay, maybe his colleague would come later, but instead he said, "Can you hold this for a moment?" and shortly after, "Can you give me a quick hand here?" My husband is easygoing, and we realized the man wouldn’t be able to manage on his own. At the same time, the staircase needed to be installed urgently, and we just wanted to get the job done.
In the end, my husband spent half the working day helping, and the carpenter still didn’t manage to complete the installation; there simply wasn’t enough time (to be precise, he didn’t even start installing). As for removing the old staircase, a lot was left unfinished as well.
So, he left us without a staircase, though at least there was a ladder in the opening, allowing us access to the upper floor, and he said he would come back “some time,” as he was very busy at the moment... Some time later, when it was about scheduling the installation, I gently asked if he planned to bring a second person, since helping out wasn’t agreed upon. He said that if we didn’t want to help, he could bring his neighbor “for a small extra fee,” as the neighbor owed him a favor...
We found this whole situation completely outrageous and told him that we would give the job to someone else. We had not agreed to help; the contract was for the carpenter to handle the removal and installation completely by himself, for which he was being paid. Having neighbors working here unofficially would hardly be acceptable.
The end result was that he charged us double for the removal, including the cost of a temporary railing at the stairwell to prevent falls (in my opinion, it is his responsibility to secure the site if he leaves it half finished, which was already a breach of contract). He took the wood for this from us but still charged us for it, which completely crossed the line.
Under no circumstances do I see any reason to pay him the agreed fee for removal since he had us help for hours and only completed part of the work himself. After I told him this, he said he would immediately take the matter to a lawyer. I have already sent the corrected invoice (which I adjusted myself: deducting 40% of the labor cost, removing the railing costs and the wood) and will see what he does. But I suspect this carpenter deserves the “Golden Raspberry” of the trade in 2014.
I don’t have a direct question, as this is not a legal advice forum. But I am curious if any of you have ever experienced something like this, or as a tradesperson have expected or demanded (or included from the start) that the client acts as a free helper.
B
Bauexperte11 Dec 2014 00:19Good evening,
Regards, Bauexperte
Elina schrieb:What exactly did you hire him for and at what cost? Removal/installation only while you provide the staircase (which one?) purchased elsewhere, or the staircase plus removal/installation?
... the contract was for full removal and installation by the tradesman, and that’s what he is paid for.
Regards, Bauexperte
H
HilfeHilfe11 Dec 2014 07:35Was there no written offer provided in advance?
There was a written offer (email) specifying the installation and removal. He was not hired on an hourly basis to assist, but for the complete assembly. We had purchased the staircase elsewhere. The removal and installation on the same day was also agreed upon in writing, and the exact day was specified. The removal was to cost 225 euros net, and the installation 450 euros net, plus disposal costs for the wooden parts of 15 euros net. Plus VAT.
D
Doc.Schnaggls11 Dec 2014 12:36Elina schrieb:
We bought the staircase elsewhere.It’s surprising that you even managed to find a tradesperson for that.
If I were a tradesperson, I would decline such jobs—ultimately, I would still be liable if something goes wrong with the staircase. How could I then definitively prove that I didn’t cause the damage, but that the fault lies with the externally sourced staircase?
Nevertheless, the tradesperson’s behavior is not exactly professional—but that’s something I have to expect when I handle my jobs this way. Tradespeople usually price their work so they also make a profit on the materials installed, and they won’t put in extra effort for such “low-margin” jobs...
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Bauexperte11 Dec 2014 12:52Hello,
You divided the work into two parts to supposedly save money; this rarely works well because the payment usually consists of material plus labor hours. This approach also explains the statement, “I can ask a neighbor…” – I couldn’t relate that to the situation otherwise.
If I compare the amounts of the contracts to the effort involved, you will very likely, with the next contractor, either end up paying more from your perspective or, from my perspective, pay the fair price.
I’m curious how the tradesperson will respond to your interpretation of the owed invoice.
Regards, Bauexperte
Elina schrieb:From my point of view, it’s clear why you are in trouble… the only thing missing is that you found the tradesperson via the well-known portal or classified ads.
There was a written offer (email) specifying both installation and removal. He was not hired hourly to assist but for the complete assembly. We had purchased the staircase elsewhere. The removal and installation on the same day was also agreed upon in writing, with the exact date specified. The removal was to cost 225 euros net, and the installation 450 euros net. Plus disposal costs for the wooden parts 15 euros net. Plus VAT.
You divided the work into two parts to supposedly save money; this rarely works well because the payment usually consists of material plus labor hours. This approach also explains the statement, “I can ask a neighbor…” – I couldn’t relate that to the situation otherwise.
If I compare the amounts of the contracts to the effort involved, you will very likely, with the next contractor, either end up paying more from your perspective or, from my perspective, pay the fair price.
I’m curious how the tradesperson will respond to your interpretation of the owed invoice.
Regards, Bauexperte
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