ᐅ Comparability of Costs: Architect vs. General Contractor
Created on: 4 Mar 2021 16:57
A
askforafriend
Hello dear forum,
We are currently in the planning phase for a single-family house. We have requested quotes from several general contractors and have also spoken with a very approachable architect. We would be happy to present our building project (BVH) in detail at a later stage!
Overall, we much prefer the transparency and approach of the architect compared to the initial consultation with the general contractor. We understand that over time, we will also speak with an architect/planner through the general contractor who will discuss details with us. We have thoroughly researched the advantages and disadvantages both in this forum and through various guides.
At this stage, our main focus is on comparing the cost estimates from the general contractors versus the architect. The general contractor states the costs as a fixed price (based on the building and scope of services description) plus our additional requests (extra electrical outlets, KfW standard, etc.). A rough total for the house including additional requests was, for example, 410,000 euros. This naturally also includes architectural/planning/engineering services according to the scope of work description.
Land leveling.
Discussions about your building project together with you during planning and construction meetings. Preparation of building permit/planning permission documents at a scale of 1:100 in the required number of copies for the authorities.
You will receive an additional set of plans for your personal records.
Development of working drawings (scale 1:50) as well as any necessary detailed drawings.
Creation of structural engineering plans (standard structural design for the respective house type) including any required building physics reports for thermal and fire protection.
Calculation of energy demand and preparation of the energy performance certificate. A copy will be provided for your records.
Preparation of public funding applications, if required.
Site management and construction supervision up to handover of the house.
Support during the warranty period.
When we first met with the architect, he took out a book labeled BKI to provide a rough estimate of the feasibility of the building project based on this data. He calculated roughly 3,000 euros per square meter and 150 square meters (1,615 square feet) of living space, resulting in a total of 450,000 euros.
The big question now is: Does this amount exclude his fees or do these average construction costs per square meter already include the services mentioned above? This might be a somewhat naive question, but it’s really unclear to us. Is there a list of costs that are included in these average rates?
We have an appointment with him next week for a more detailed cost assessment.
Thank you very much for your feedback, and I wish you a pleasant week.
We are currently in the planning phase for a single-family house. We have requested quotes from several general contractors and have also spoken with a very approachable architect. We would be happy to present our building project (BVH) in detail at a later stage!
Overall, we much prefer the transparency and approach of the architect compared to the initial consultation with the general contractor. We understand that over time, we will also speak with an architect/planner through the general contractor who will discuss details with us. We have thoroughly researched the advantages and disadvantages both in this forum and through various guides.
At this stage, our main focus is on comparing the cost estimates from the general contractors versus the architect. The general contractor states the costs as a fixed price (based on the building and scope of services description) plus our additional requests (extra electrical outlets, KfW standard, etc.). A rough total for the house including additional requests was, for example, 410,000 euros. This naturally also includes architectural/planning/engineering services according to the scope of work description.
Land leveling.
Discussions about your building project together with you during planning and construction meetings. Preparation of building permit/planning permission documents at a scale of 1:100 in the required number of copies for the authorities.
You will receive an additional set of plans for your personal records.
Development of working drawings (scale 1:50) as well as any necessary detailed drawings.
Creation of structural engineering plans (standard structural design for the respective house type) including any required building physics reports for thermal and fire protection.
Calculation of energy demand and preparation of the energy performance certificate. A copy will be provided for your records.
Preparation of public funding applications, if required.
Site management and construction supervision up to handover of the house.
Support during the warranty period.
When we first met with the architect, he took out a book labeled BKI to provide a rough estimate of the feasibility of the building project based on this data. He calculated roughly 3,000 euros per square meter and 150 square meters (1,615 square feet) of living space, resulting in a total of 450,000 euros.
The big question now is: Does this amount exclude his fees or do these average construction costs per square meter already include the services mentioned above? This might be a somewhat naive question, but it’s really unclear to us. Is there a list of costs that are included in these average rates?
We have an appointment with him next week for a more detailed cost assessment.
Thank you very much for your feedback, and I wish you a pleasant week.
ypg schrieb:
Unexplained extra costs are relative: when you consider that with a floor-level shower not only is the shower tray omitted, but the tile and screed layers and the plumbing require more work... an additional wall is tiled, with a waterproof membrane underneath, then a surcharge of 1000€ is understandable. Most general contractors have sophisticated modular systems...That may well be true for some general contractors. However, if a roller shutter has a flat surcharge of 800 EUR regardless of size—and I know that for that amount I could get an entire window (not floor-to-ceiling) with a higher security rating and a roller shutter—then I’m quite sure someone is digging deep into all my pockets and then some...
askforafriend5 Mar 2021 09:51ypg schrieb:
If you don’t have to do any tricky maneuvers on the plot and basically find what you need in the scope of work description, you can confidently build more affordably with a general contractor (GC). That’s the crux of the matter, and let’s try to figure it out—naturally, in hindsight, no one will have built the exact same house with an architect and a GC, logically. The house should be a standard house, and of course, we have a budget—like everyone else. The architect’s cost shouldn’t just come out about 20% over the estimate. To everyone: Does anyone have an idea of how much leeway an architect has to exceed the budget? Are there liability issues if estimates turn out to be wrong? I believe the architect has an interest in sticking to it. For us, it’s not about upgrades, marble floors, or “crooked walls,” but more about the “path to the finished house,” which currently feels quite opaque with the GC. It’s fine if the final price is the same—we just hope for better flexibility regarding our small wishes.
An example: We would like a concrete staircase without covering, as we want to finish this ourselves later. The GC offered a steel-stringer staircase. The concrete staircase (from basement to upper floor) is quoted as costing 10,000 euros more. After researching online and talking to colleagues who have done self-builds, everyone agreed the uncovered concrete staircase should be significantly cheaper than the steel-stringer staircase.
ypg schrieb:
In our experience, architect-designed houses are more expensive because you have to pay for the service. Fair enough!
ypg schrieb:
With a GC, it is as it was offered. And we are happy. I think regardless of whether we go with an architect or a GC, once we’re sitting in our house, we will be happy. If I felt otherwise, we wouldn’t be building 🙂
askforafriend5 Mar 2021 09:54Tolentino schrieb:
That might be true for some general contractors. However, if a roller shutter has a flat surcharge of 800 EUR (about 850 USD) regardless of size—and I know I could get a whole window (not floor-to-ceiling) with a higher security rating and a shutter for that price—then I’m pretty sure someone is trying to dig very deep into all my pockets and take even more from them...It’s the same with our general contractors—any deviation from the standard comes with an unexplained extra charge. Another example is a door in anthracite instead of white, which is supposed to cost an additional 2,300 EUR (about 2,450 USD). There is already a white door with installation included in the construction specification. Anthracite-colored doors don’t necessarily cost more than white ones if you look around.
askforafriend schrieb:
In hindsight, of course, there won’t be anyone who built the same house with an architect and a general contractor,But it would be really interesting. I hereby promise that if I ever win ten times the amount I need for the rest of my life in the lottery, I will take the chance to try this experiment and share the results. 😉
H
HilfeHilfe5 Mar 2021 10:01askforafriend schrieb:
This is the case with our general contractor as well – any deviation from the standard results in unexplained additional costs. Another example is the door in anthracite instead of white, which is supposed to cost an extra €2,300 additionally. A white door with installation is already included in the scope of work description – anthracite-colored doors don’t necessarily cost more than white ones if you look around.Poor general contractor, many have large management teams that want to be paid. Extras are a welcome additional source of income there.
Tolentino schrieb:
That may be true for some general contractors. But if a roller shutter has a flat surcharge of 800 EUR regardless of size (and I know I can get an entire window (not floor-to-ceiling) with a higher security rating and a shutter for that price), then I’m quite sure someone is trying to reach deep into all my pockets and beyond...That’s right. But some people don’t want such shutters at all, or they just choose the general contractor who includes them in the building scope. It always feels a bit off and loses appeal when you select the contractor based on cost and then outfit the budget/basic build with “expensive” extras. In the end, going with a more expensive general contractor might actually be cheaper. From my experience here in the forum, the surcharges for budget houses tend to be higher than for somewhat pricier ones. In the higher-quality segment, these upgrades are either already included or can be added at no extra cost. It’s no coincidence that cheap houses are cheap: fast, inexpensive subcontractors do not build individually for that price.HilfeHilfe schrieb:
In retrospect, we were glad. There was a fixed price, many changes (wall relocations) were done at no cost, and if there were surcharges, they were passed on 1:1 or directly settled with the subcontractors.We were lucky too: we selected the general contractor based on our custom house type and did not compare, since it was unique. Even the window areas were not strictly limited. Naturally, it was a pleasure to be able to do things the way we wanted.askforafriend schrieb:
That the concrete staircase without a covering should be clearly cheaper than the steel stringer staircase.Well, I actually think a steel stringer is cheaper than concrete. 😉askforafriend schrieb:
If I thought otherwise, we wouldn’t be building 🙂What I mean is: there are many builders here who get stuck on small details. “Could have, should have...” — in the end, some regret certain building methods and such.askforafriend schrieb:
It’s the same with our general contractor — every deviation from the standard costs unexplained extra money. Another example is the door in anthracite instead of white, which is supposed to cost 2,300 EUR extra. A white door with installation is already included in the building scope.Why don’t you choose a general contractor who includes anthracite in the building scope? Our full anthracite package cost 2,300 EUR. In the building scope, the wooden door was listed as in a color of choice.Similar topics