Hello everyone,
I hope you can give me some advice or tips.
We bought a house in shell condition and decided to have an architect handle the interior fit-out.
We have a budget X for the interior work, but there is no detailed breakdown of what may/can/should cost what.
We constantly have to chase the architect to get a price range for each item. For example, when buying tiles, he sends us to the hardware store but doesn’t tell us how much per square meter (square foot) they are allowed to cost. So, again, we have to call him back.
He orders a front door and sends us a photo. The door was white on both sides with frosted glass, but the one delivered was white on the inside and wood-like on the outside with clear window glass! We never wanted clear glass, and he knew that! More back and forth calls, and now we have to buy a film for the glass because the company doesn’t sell front doors with frosted glass. Great! That’s how the communication works.
Regarding the kitchen tile backsplash, we clearly explained multiple times how we want it. A few days later, the backsplash was done—but the way the architect wanted it, not as we agreed. So again, a phone call, and ultimately some tiles had to be removed and redone.
It’s getting frustrating!
And now we have the next problem:
The architect chose a sink, shower screen, wall-mounted toilet with seat, and other sanitary fixtures from a very expensive bathroom supplier. We didn’t know this. The bathtub is already installed—we didn’t see it beforehand, so once again, we weren’t consulted. When we looked at the sanitary fittings, it was an absolute no-go! Completely unsuitable in terms of style...
and price-wise, the cheapest of the cheap! If we were to pick what we want, of course, we wouldn’t reach the price in his current offer. We actually like sanitary fittings at hardware stores that are also much cheaper. He insists we must buy from this bathroom supplier and probably even the items he selected...
What can we do? What options do we even have? If that bathroom goes in with what he chose, I won’t move in... *sigh*
Unfortunately, we only have a work contract with him, and I fear we have to comply... I hope someone here can help!
One more question:
Do we have the right to request invoices for the services provided (tiler, tile purchase, etc.)? To ultimately check whether he actually used the full amount allocated for the interior fit-out? It could be that he buys everything cheaply and keeps the rest for himself...
Thank you and best regards
I hope you can give me some advice or tips.
We bought a house in shell condition and decided to have an architect handle the interior fit-out.
We have a budget X for the interior work, but there is no detailed breakdown of what may/can/should cost what.
We constantly have to chase the architect to get a price range for each item. For example, when buying tiles, he sends us to the hardware store but doesn’t tell us how much per square meter (square foot) they are allowed to cost. So, again, we have to call him back.
He orders a front door and sends us a photo. The door was white on both sides with frosted glass, but the one delivered was white on the inside and wood-like on the outside with clear window glass! We never wanted clear glass, and he knew that! More back and forth calls, and now we have to buy a film for the glass because the company doesn’t sell front doors with frosted glass. Great! That’s how the communication works.
Regarding the kitchen tile backsplash, we clearly explained multiple times how we want it. A few days later, the backsplash was done—but the way the architect wanted it, not as we agreed. So again, a phone call, and ultimately some tiles had to be removed and redone.
It’s getting frustrating!
And now we have the next problem:
The architect chose a sink, shower screen, wall-mounted toilet with seat, and other sanitary fixtures from a very expensive bathroom supplier. We didn’t know this. The bathtub is already installed—we didn’t see it beforehand, so once again, we weren’t consulted. When we looked at the sanitary fittings, it was an absolute no-go! Completely unsuitable in terms of style...
and price-wise, the cheapest of the cheap! If we were to pick what we want, of course, we wouldn’t reach the price in his current offer. We actually like sanitary fittings at hardware stores that are also much cheaper. He insists we must buy from this bathroom supplier and probably even the items he selected...
What can we do? What options do we even have? If that bathroom goes in with what he chose, I won’t move in... *sigh*
Unfortunately, we only have a work contract with him, and I fear we have to comply... I hope someone here can help!
One more question:
Do we have the right to request invoices for the services provided (tiler, tile purchase, etc.)? To ultimately check whether he actually used the full amount allocated for the interior fit-out? It could be that he buys everything cheaply and keeps the rest for himself...
Thank you and best regards
Romy schrieb:
Yes, unfortunately that's how it is. Everything is only verbal and nothing in writing..... Everyone gets what they pay for. Those who try to save too much end up paying twice... I just hope it was at least very cheap.B
Bauexperte24 Oct 2013 15:14Hello,
You haven’t had much contact with lawyers issuing cease-and-desist letters yet; I hope it stays that way.
Regards, Bauexperte
klblb schrieb:copy & paste ...
(What kind of brainwashing has actually taken place that almost everyone in any random forum can flawlessly write the sentence "Legal advice in Germany is exclusively reserved for the legal professions"? As if that were sacred)
You haven’t had much contact with lawyers issuing cease-and-desist letters yet; I hope it stays that way.
Regards, Bauexperte
B
Bauexperte24 Oct 2013 15:27Hello,
sometimes I am baffled by the naivety I see here in the forum, and I start to suspect that someone might be using multiple identities to stir things up...
It is different when awarding contracts for trades => construction contract. Here, the architect acts as the main contractor with full liability. However, this does not mean he can install the cheapest materials unless the budget in the bottom right corner allows no other option 😕
Since nobody here knows the exact circumstances or the construction contract, and as legal advice is off topic here: find a lawyer specializing in construction and contract law. Bring all your documents and clarify your options with them.
Regards, Bauexperte
sometimes I am baffled by the naivety I see here in the forum, and I start to suspect that someone might be using multiple identities to stir things up...
Romy schrieb:That is okay as far as it goes – however, it must also specify which materials are to be used.
The construction contract states what and when payments are to be made and what is done as self-performed work (e.g., buying the chimney, building the carport yourself, etc.).
So basically: amount x after completion of the heating system, stairs
amount x after completion of the floor coverings...
Romy schrieb:There is still the VOB (German Construction Contract Procedures) and the Building Code.
Yes, unfortunately that is the case.
Everything only verbal and nothing in writing...
Romy schrieb:That depends...
There is no mention of a right to have a say in the construction contract.
He decided on the heating alone, we were supposed to choose the tiles ourselves, he decided on the stairs, and for the sanitary items, he got a quote. When I asked him about it, he finally disclosed exactly what he ordered... and if I hadn’t asked, he would have installed those items as chosen, and I probably would have been completely shocked...
And that’s the problem now... do we have to take the sanitary items he selected? Because the company installing them is connected to the sanitary supplier...
Romy schrieb:The first mistake was accepting the contract as it happened! When working with an architect, initially no contract is needed – the moment you verbally asked him to coordinate the interior work, a legally binding contract for his architectural services was established.
There was no tender, and the architect is also the seller. I think something is wrong here!
It is different when awarding contracts for trades => construction contract. Here, the architect acts as the main contractor with full liability. However, this does not mean he can install the cheapest materials unless the budget in the bottom right corner allows no other option 😕
Since nobody here knows the exact circumstances or the construction contract, and as legal advice is off topic here: find a lawyer specializing in construction and contract law. Bring all your documents and clarify your options with them.
Regards, Bauexperte
In my opinion, the headline is somewhat inaccurate and misleading.
When building with an architect, there is no fixed-price contract (work contract), but rather the HOAI fee schedule (or am I mistaken?). The architect handles the tenders with the trades and so on. As the client, you usually still make the selections yourself.
An architect can, of course, also act as a general contractor (GC) or main contractor. In that case, it is the company you enter into a work contract with. They then build a turnkey house for you based on the detailed scope of work. Within this part of the house, the heating system comes from company X and the plumbing from company Y. For changes, in my opinion, you need to inform them early: Hello, we don’t want X installed; we prefer Z. What counts is what is stated in the contract: Y or according to the client’s selections.
Low-cost GCs might not accommodate the client’s wishes regarding technical specifications, because the model home Sabrina, for example, is designed as a KfW 70 house exactly with heating X and windows of a certain size. Changes mean additional effort, but who wants to pay for that? The higher the price segment of the GC (the term architect does not apply here), the more flexible they tend to be and the broader the choices and options.
At least, that was the impression I got from homebuilders and suppliers when we gathered information. Although a company like Herr Viebrockhaus would probably also be quite displeased if they were not allowed to install their highly promoted technology but something else instead.
Do you actually have a right to make selections? I don’t know what is stated in our scope of works… Is this documented somewhere definitively?
But I think, if you commit to a turnkey house, you also accept the philosophy of the GC – they have their standard technology (heating and so on) as well as their preferred tradespeople, with whom they primarily work and (hopefully) achieve good results 🙂
When building with an architect, there is no fixed-price contract (work contract), but rather the HOAI fee schedule (or am I mistaken?). The architect handles the tenders with the trades and so on. As the client, you usually still make the selections yourself.
An architect can, of course, also act as a general contractor (GC) or main contractor. In that case, it is the company you enter into a work contract with. They then build a turnkey house for you based on the detailed scope of work. Within this part of the house, the heating system comes from company X and the plumbing from company Y. For changes, in my opinion, you need to inform them early: Hello, we don’t want X installed; we prefer Z. What counts is what is stated in the contract: Y or according to the client’s selections.
Low-cost GCs might not accommodate the client’s wishes regarding technical specifications, because the model home Sabrina, for example, is designed as a KfW 70 house exactly with heating X and windows of a certain size. Changes mean additional effort, but who wants to pay for that? The higher the price segment of the GC (the term architect does not apply here), the more flexible they tend to be and the broader the choices and options.
At least, that was the impression I got from homebuilders and suppliers when we gathered information. Although a company like Herr Viebrockhaus would probably also be quite displeased if they were not allowed to install their highly promoted technology but something else instead.
Do you actually have a right to make selections? I don’t know what is stated in our scope of works… Is this documented somewhere definitively?
But I think, if you commit to a turnkey house, you also accept the philosophy of the GC – they have their standard technology (heating and so on) as well as their preferred tradespeople, with whom they primarily work and (hopefully) achieve good results 🙂
ypg schrieb:
....Although Mr. Viebrockhaus would surely have been disappointed if he were not to install his super-duper technology, which he promotes, but something else... Quite a few homeowners here complain about significantly higher consumption costs in some cases.Best regards
€uro schrieb:
Quite a few builders complain here about consumption costs that are sometimes significantly overpriced.
Best regards.Exactly... and we confronted the mentioned Mr. V. about this in a consultation... of course, he wanted to know nothing about any of it :p... We then concluded for ourselves that building with a general contractor (GC) who dictates the technical aspects and execution is not for us...
Best regards, fragri
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