ᐅ What is feasible on the existing plot and within the budget
Created on: 8 Mar 2019 13:12
N
neigschmeckt
Hello everyone,
somehow I’m stuck in a planning chaos and hope to get a few tips from you regarding the planning approach and/or ideas for implementation…
In particular, a cost estimate would probably help me with regard to the basement design. Or how many square meters of house we can afford. Can we save money if, instead of a living basement, we plan the garage in the basement and enlarge the house footprint to accommodate a guest room/office and utility room?
What is the most cost-effective way to achieve my desired level access to the large terrace and garden from the ground floor (living/dining/kitchen)? There should be enough space to at least partially accommodate an embankment with a slope.
Any ideas for the placement of the garage? I especially can’t quite visualize the slope.
We still have a total budget of 500,000 € (land already owned). It has to be somehow feasible with this budget to build a family house (not just standard equipped) with more than 130 sqm plus basement, garage and outdoor area in Baden-Württemberg, right?
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: approx. 769 sqm (access and final measurement still pending)
Slope: yes, 2 or 3 meters (6.5 or 10 feet) gradient
Floor area ratio: 0.4 (max. 0.6)
Floor space index: -
Building window, building line and boundary: 2.5 m (8 ft) setback from boundary
Edge development: garages, if connected to the main building; street-side 1 m (3 ft) distance
Number of parking spaces: 2
Number of floors: -
Roof shape: single-pitched (SD), half-hipped (vSD), gabled roof (WD) 30 - 40°: max ridge height 8.0 m (26 ft)
dormer roof (ZD), gable dormer (gD) 10 – 25°: max ridge height 8.0 m (26 ft)
flat roof (FD) 0 -5°: max parapet height 6.8 m (22 ft)
Architectural style: -
Orientation: parallel to the street or rotated 90°, see plan
Maximum heights/limits: height measured from reference height (highest point on our plot); max ridge height 8 m (26 ft) (for flat roof max parapet height 6.8 m (22 ft))
Additional requirements:
Client requirements:
Style: modern, but practicality on the outside more important than aesthetics!
Roof type: doesn’t matter, just no knee wall under 1.50 m (5 ft)
Building type: any
Basement, floors: initial idea is a living basement with a self-contained apartment; alternatively living basement with guest room/office or utility basement with integrated garage?? This is already part of the planning problem
Number of people, age: 36 and 38 + 1.5 years
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor:
GF: (level access with garden connection or large terrace) 50 sqm (540 sqft) for open living/dining/kitchen; the rest depends on wishes such as guest toilet or shower bathroom, entrance area/wardrobe as a mudroom to avoid dirt being brought into the house, circulation area for stairs and guest toilet not in the dirty area right at the front door; small office/spare guest room, possibly a pantry for vacuum cleaner, broom, etc.
UF: bathroom with double vanity, bathtub for two (180 x 80 cm (71 x 31 inches)), bright floor-tiled shower 1 x 1.2 m (3 x 4 ft) with glass door; one large (>15 sqm (160 sqft)) and one smaller (about 12-15 sqm (130-160 sqft)) children’s bedrooms; master bedroom, walk-in closet (accessible from the corridor), small hallway (no wasted space for large hallway, prefer bigger rooms), possibly utility room for washing machine, dryer, ironing and drying rack
Office: Family use or home office?: both; both adults work about one day a week from home.
Overnight guests per year: around 1-2 guests every 2 months, possibly increasing due to childcare
Open or closed architecture: open!
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern, many floor-to-ceiling windows, light light light…
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen!!! Preferably with an island (possibly not enough space); important: sink and work surface not against a wall and not facing away from living-dining area!! (Wish side-by-side fridge, tall oven)
Number of dining seats: 4-6 (more than 6 only with extendable table and chairs to be fetched)
Fireplace: possibly preparation
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: because of the slope garage roof on basement level as roof terrace for the ground floor
Garage, carport: double—preferably large garage. Two cars used only on weekends MUST fit in garage with some space for tools and repairs. For one daily-use car garage or carport (convenient getting in/out and short, low-stair access paths to house entrance, preferably under cover). One more daily car somewhere else (e.g. parking space in front of garage or similar)
Utility garden, greenhouse: no
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, also reasons why this or that should or should not be:
level access from kitchen/dining/living to garden is a must, alternatively large roof terrace leading to garden!
Future wishes: possibility to add a pool; smart home retrofit
House design
Designed by:
-builder’s planner
-architect
-do-it-yourself
What do you like especially? Why?
What do you dislike? Why?
Price estimate by architect/planner:
Personal price limit for the house including equipment: 500,000 € for house including everything, also earthworks, kitchen, outdoor area (possibly in installments) and double garage
Preferred heating technology: gas not connected, therefore air-source heat pump, preferably with photovoltaics
If you had to forego some details/extensions
-You could live without: for now the third garage or carport for daily vehicle or oversized double/large garage, if planning allows later realization; self-contained apartment, living basement (if office on ground floor and utility room upstairs), basement (if slope allows and house footprint increases), stair-low access to the house, fireplace
-You cannot do without: 50 sqm open living/dining/kitchen, open living, mudroom, floor-to-ceiling windows, electric shutters,
somehow I’m stuck in a planning chaos and hope to get a few tips from you regarding the planning approach and/or ideas for implementation…
In particular, a cost estimate would probably help me with regard to the basement design. Or how many square meters of house we can afford. Can we save money if, instead of a living basement, we plan the garage in the basement and enlarge the house footprint to accommodate a guest room/office and utility room?
What is the most cost-effective way to achieve my desired level access to the large terrace and garden from the ground floor (living/dining/kitchen)? There should be enough space to at least partially accommodate an embankment with a slope.
Any ideas for the placement of the garage? I especially can’t quite visualize the slope.
We still have a total budget of 500,000 € (land already owned). It has to be somehow feasible with this budget to build a family house (not just standard equipped) with more than 130 sqm plus basement, garage and outdoor area in Baden-Württemberg, right?
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: approx. 769 sqm (access and final measurement still pending)
Slope: yes, 2 or 3 meters (6.5 or 10 feet) gradient
Floor area ratio: 0.4 (max. 0.6)
Floor space index: -
Building window, building line and boundary: 2.5 m (8 ft) setback from boundary
Edge development: garages, if connected to the main building; street-side 1 m (3 ft) distance
Number of parking spaces: 2
Number of floors: -
Roof shape: single-pitched (SD), half-hipped (vSD), gabled roof (WD) 30 - 40°: max ridge height 8.0 m (26 ft)
dormer roof (ZD), gable dormer (gD) 10 – 25°: max ridge height 8.0 m (26 ft)
flat roof (FD) 0 -5°: max parapet height 6.8 m (22 ft)
Architectural style: -
Orientation: parallel to the street or rotated 90°, see plan
Maximum heights/limits: height measured from reference height (highest point on our plot); max ridge height 8 m (26 ft) (for flat roof max parapet height 6.8 m (22 ft))
Additional requirements:
Client requirements:
Style: modern, but practicality on the outside more important than aesthetics!
Roof type: doesn’t matter, just no knee wall under 1.50 m (5 ft)
Building type: any
Basement, floors: initial idea is a living basement with a self-contained apartment; alternatively living basement with guest room/office or utility basement with integrated garage?? This is already part of the planning problem
Number of people, age: 36 and 38 + 1.5 years
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor:
GF: (level access with garden connection or large terrace) 50 sqm (540 sqft) for open living/dining/kitchen; the rest depends on wishes such as guest toilet or shower bathroom, entrance area/wardrobe as a mudroom to avoid dirt being brought into the house, circulation area for stairs and guest toilet not in the dirty area right at the front door; small office/spare guest room, possibly a pantry for vacuum cleaner, broom, etc.
UF: bathroom with double vanity, bathtub for two (180 x 80 cm (71 x 31 inches)), bright floor-tiled shower 1 x 1.2 m (3 x 4 ft) with glass door; one large (>15 sqm (160 sqft)) and one smaller (about 12-15 sqm (130-160 sqft)) children’s bedrooms; master bedroom, walk-in closet (accessible from the corridor), small hallway (no wasted space for large hallway, prefer bigger rooms), possibly utility room for washing machine, dryer, ironing and drying rack
Office: Family use or home office?: both; both adults work about one day a week from home.
Overnight guests per year: around 1-2 guests every 2 months, possibly increasing due to childcare
Open or closed architecture: open!
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern, many floor-to-ceiling windows, light light light…
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen!!! Preferably with an island (possibly not enough space); important: sink and work surface not against a wall and not facing away from living-dining area!! (Wish side-by-side fridge, tall oven)
Number of dining seats: 4-6 (more than 6 only with extendable table and chairs to be fetched)
Fireplace: possibly preparation
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: because of the slope garage roof on basement level as roof terrace for the ground floor
Garage, carport: double—preferably large garage. Two cars used only on weekends MUST fit in garage with some space for tools and repairs. For one daily-use car garage or carport (convenient getting in/out and short, low-stair access paths to house entrance, preferably under cover). One more daily car somewhere else (e.g. parking space in front of garage or similar)
Utility garden, greenhouse: no
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, also reasons why this or that should or should not be:
level access from kitchen/dining/living to garden is a must, alternatively large roof terrace leading to garden!
Future wishes: possibility to add a pool; smart home retrofit
House design
Designed by:
-builder’s planner
-architect
-do-it-yourself
What do you like especially? Why?
What do you dislike? Why?
Price estimate by architect/planner:
Personal price limit for the house including equipment: 500,000 € for house including everything, also earthworks, kitchen, outdoor area (possibly in installments) and double garage
Preferred heating technology: gas not connected, therefore air-source heat pump, preferably with photovoltaics
If you had to forego some details/extensions
-You could live without: for now the third garage or carport for daily vehicle or oversized double/large garage, if planning allows later realization; self-contained apartment, living basement (if office on ground floor and utility room upstairs), basement (if slope allows and house footprint increases), stair-low access to the house, fireplace
-You cannot do without: 50 sqm open living/dining/kitchen, open living, mudroom, floor-to-ceiling windows, electric shutters,
neigschmeckt schrieb:
I have not yet looked into the general regulations in the state building code or building law, or would the requirement be there The building law protects only the topsoil in the case of significant alterations to the ground surface (§202). Otherwise, §9 (3) authorizes the municipality to set elevation requirements—even for areas where building is not allowed. Whether and to what extent the municipality exercises this right is up to them. If your quote covers everything on this topic, then §§10 and 6 (1) 3. of the state building code can also limit overly permissive terrain modeling. Furthermore, §§9 and 10 of the neighboring property law must be observed.
N
neigschmeckt9 Mar 2019 21:46@11ant
The ridge height is 210.5cm (83 inches) plus the permitted 8m (26 feet). The drawn full story does not necessarily have to be a complete floor. The roof pitch shown at an 8m (26 feet) building width is 30°. If the building becomes wider, a knee wall will be necessary anyway.
Attached is my poor attempt to visualize the slope in 2D that would lead to the garage. Here I initially assumed 3m (10 feet) per floor. For the garage, however, 2.5m (8 feet) would be sufficient to avoid a downward slope inside the garage.
@Escroda
Many thanks. Collecting the relevant regulations myself would have taken me years.
@Zaba12
Then add another 20cm (8 inches) on top. We really don’t need a railing for the garden. That would not fit the idea of an "open" design. The fewer steps the staircase has, the better. Then we would need to raise the ground by 70cm (28 inches) instead of 50cm (20 inches).
The ridge height is 210.5cm (83 inches) plus the permitted 8m (26 feet). The drawn full story does not necessarily have to be a complete floor. The roof pitch shown at an 8m (26 feet) building width is 30°. If the building becomes wider, a knee wall will be necessary anyway.
Attached is my poor attempt to visualize the slope in 2D that would lead to the garage. Here I initially assumed 3m (10 feet) per floor. For the garage, however, 2.5m (8 feet) would be sufficient to avoid a downward slope inside the garage.
@Escroda
Many thanks. Collecting the relevant regulations myself would have taken me years.
@Zaba12
Then add another 20cm (8 inches) on top. We really don’t need a railing for the garden. That would not fit the idea of an "open" design. The fewer steps the staircase has, the better. Then we would need to raise the ground by 70cm (28 inches) instead of 50cm (20 inches).
neigschmeckt schrieb:
@11ant
The finished height is 210.5 cm (83 inches) plus the allowed 8 m (26 feet). The drawn full story does not necessarily have to be that way. The drawn roof pitch at 8 m (26 feet) house width is 30°. If we go wider, a knee wall will be necessary anyway.
Attached is my poor attempt to visualize the slope in 2D that would lead to the garage. Here I still assumed 3 m (10 feet) per story. For the garage, 2.50 m (8 feet 2 inches) would also be sufficient to avoid a downward slope into the garage.
@Escroda
Thanks a lot. Collecting the regulations myself would have taken me years.
@Zaba12
Then add another 20 cm (8 inches) on top. We really don’t need a railing towards the garden. That wouldn’t fit the idea of an “open” design. The fewer stairs the staircase has, the better. Then we’d have to fill up 70 cm (28 inches) instead of 50 cm (20 inches). I think you don’t understand—you are legally required by the local building authority (Labo) to install fall protection starting from 80 cm (31 inches) height! If you don’t do this and someone falls, no insurance in the world will cover the damages.
And filling up 70 cm (28 inches) just like that… what’s your budget again? Also, keep in mind your general contractor, earthworks contractor, etc., are not obligated to refill the excavation. If they don’t want to, they won’t do it.
Don’t assume all of this is simple within your limited budget and given the conditions. Because it’s not.
N
neigschmeckt9 Mar 2019 22:24@Zaba12
Okay, I guess I first need to memorize the state building code and building regulations. Apparently, these requirements didn’t exist in Hesse 18 years ago. At my sister’s place, you can still fall 1.50 meters (5 feet) deep into the abyss...
How high should my budget be to make this happen? What does an additional centimeter (0.4 inch) of fill cost me? I’m not asking here for no reason. These implementations are more important to me than a top-of-the-line tile floor or a rimless toilet.
In the best case, for example, the financing might suddenly provide an extra $20,000 to $50,000 (or equivalent) in budget.
Okay, I guess I first need to memorize the state building code and building regulations. Apparently, these requirements didn’t exist in Hesse 18 years ago. At my sister’s place, you can still fall 1.50 meters (5 feet) deep into the abyss...
How high should my budget be to make this happen? What does an additional centimeter (0.4 inch) of fill cost me? I’m not asking here for no reason. These implementations are more important to me than a top-of-the-line tile floor or a rimless toilet.
In the best case, for example, the financing might suddenly provide an extra $20,000 to $50,000 (or equivalent) in budget.
Crossy schrieb:
Then calculate backwards first:
500k
- 20k for the kitchen and some small items
- 25k for earthworks (will naturally be more expensive due to the slope)
- 30k for additional construction costs
- 25k for the double garage
- 20k for carport/entrance canopy
- 30k for landscaping (will naturally be more expensive due to the slope)
____________________
350k
At 2000 EUR/sqm (approximately 186 USD/sqft) you can afford around 170 sqm (1830 sqft).
That should be sufficient for 3-4 people.
However, it must be said that your requirements are cost drivers. Just the double garage plus carport/entrance canopy will cost quite a bit. Photovoltaics and other extras probably won't be possible initially.
I also don't quite understand your plan regarding basement/ground floor/upper floor.
Do you want to build three stories?
The slope ascends, right? I would plan a basement with entrance area, children's room, dining area, bathroom, and utility room into the slope. Then on the upper floor, place kitchen/living/dining + office + storage + guest bathroom.
So only two floors. Or am I misunderstanding your planning?
We are building something similar on a slope. Our terrace will also be on top of the double garage. When requesting quotes, we originally asked about placing the garage under the house. That almost always turned out more expensive because it increases the building footprint, makes thermal separation more difficult, and you would also need to support the slope beside the house somehow and create a level area for a terrace in the garden.Two items that will very likely be significantly over budget:
Structural engineering is still missing or depends on the structural engineer’s requirements.
Costs for earthworks vary greatly by region:
Excavator hours, disposal or acquisition (if lucky, free), transport, compaction when backfilling, shoring and stabilization.
neigschmeckt schrieb:
@Zaba12
Okay, I guess I first need to learn the regional building codes and construction laws by heart. Apparently, these regulations didn’t exist in Hesse 18 years ago. At my sister’s place, you can still fall into a 1.50 meter (5 feet) deep abyss...
What budget should I set to make this happen? How much does it cost per centimeter of fill? I’m not asking without reason here. For me, these groundworks are more important than a state-of-the-art tile floor or a rimless toilet.
Ideally, the financing could increase the budget by 20,000–50,000 euros (or equivalent). I assume she either didn’t know any better or didn’t care. An architect or any contractor involved in this kind of work must point this out. So far, everyone I worked with has done that.
For earthworks with an excavator, I was quoted €105 (about $115) per hour in 2017. That’s just for shaping the terrain. So, you’re easily looking at €3,000–4,000 ($3,300–4,400) there. Or put another way, what you see out there including the carport, welded wire fence, some small trees, terrace, and paths will end up costing around €75,000 ($82,500). The current progress you see in the photos is about €30,000–35,000 ($33,000–38,500).
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