ᐅ What is feasible on the existing plot and within the budget
Created on: 8 Mar 2019 13:12
N
neigschmeckt
Hello everyone,
somehow I’m stuck in a planning chaos and hope to get a few tips from you regarding the planning approach and/or ideas for implementation…
In particular, a cost estimate would probably help me with regard to the basement design. Or how many square meters of house we can afford. Can we save money if, instead of a living basement, we plan the garage in the basement and enlarge the house footprint to accommodate a guest room/office and utility room?
What is the most cost-effective way to achieve my desired level access to the large terrace and garden from the ground floor (living/dining/kitchen)? There should be enough space to at least partially accommodate an embankment with a slope.
Any ideas for the placement of the garage? I especially can’t quite visualize the slope.
We still have a total budget of 500,000 € (land already owned). It has to be somehow feasible with this budget to build a family house (not just standard equipped) with more than 130 sqm plus basement, garage and outdoor area in Baden-Württemberg, right?
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: approx. 769 sqm (access and final measurement still pending)
Slope: yes, 2 or 3 meters (6.5 or 10 feet) gradient
Floor area ratio: 0.4 (max. 0.6)
Floor space index: -
Building window, building line and boundary: 2.5 m (8 ft) setback from boundary
Edge development: garages, if connected to the main building; street-side 1 m (3 ft) distance
Number of parking spaces: 2
Number of floors: -
Roof shape: single-pitched (SD), half-hipped (vSD), gabled roof (WD) 30 - 40°: max ridge height 8.0 m (26 ft)
dormer roof (ZD), gable dormer (gD) 10 – 25°: max ridge height 8.0 m (26 ft)
flat roof (FD) 0 -5°: max parapet height 6.8 m (22 ft)
Architectural style: -
Orientation: parallel to the street or rotated 90°, see plan
Maximum heights/limits: height measured from reference height (highest point on our plot); max ridge height 8 m (26 ft) (for flat roof max parapet height 6.8 m (22 ft))
Additional requirements:
Client requirements:
Style: modern, but practicality on the outside more important than aesthetics!
Roof type: doesn’t matter, just no knee wall under 1.50 m (5 ft)
Building type: any
Basement, floors: initial idea is a living basement with a self-contained apartment; alternatively living basement with guest room/office or utility basement with integrated garage?? This is already part of the planning problem
Number of people, age: 36 and 38 + 1.5 years
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor:
GF: (level access with garden connection or large terrace) 50 sqm (540 sqft) for open living/dining/kitchen; the rest depends on wishes such as guest toilet or shower bathroom, entrance area/wardrobe as a mudroom to avoid dirt being brought into the house, circulation area for stairs and guest toilet not in the dirty area right at the front door; small office/spare guest room, possibly a pantry for vacuum cleaner, broom, etc.
UF: bathroom with double vanity, bathtub for two (180 x 80 cm (71 x 31 inches)), bright floor-tiled shower 1 x 1.2 m (3 x 4 ft) with glass door; one large (>15 sqm (160 sqft)) and one smaller (about 12-15 sqm (130-160 sqft)) children’s bedrooms; master bedroom, walk-in closet (accessible from the corridor), small hallway (no wasted space for large hallway, prefer bigger rooms), possibly utility room for washing machine, dryer, ironing and drying rack
Office: Family use or home office?: both; both adults work about one day a week from home.
Overnight guests per year: around 1-2 guests every 2 months, possibly increasing due to childcare
Open or closed architecture: open!
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern, many floor-to-ceiling windows, light light light…
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen!!! Preferably with an island (possibly not enough space); important: sink and work surface not against a wall and not facing away from living-dining area!! (Wish side-by-side fridge, tall oven)
Number of dining seats: 4-6 (more than 6 only with extendable table and chairs to be fetched)
Fireplace: possibly preparation
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: because of the slope garage roof on basement level as roof terrace for the ground floor
Garage, carport: double—preferably large garage. Two cars used only on weekends MUST fit in garage with some space for tools and repairs. For one daily-use car garage or carport (convenient getting in/out and short, low-stair access paths to house entrance, preferably under cover). One more daily car somewhere else (e.g. parking space in front of garage or similar)
Utility garden, greenhouse: no
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, also reasons why this or that should or should not be:
level access from kitchen/dining/living to garden is a must, alternatively large roof terrace leading to garden!
Future wishes: possibility to add a pool; smart home retrofit
House design
Designed by:
-builder’s planner
-architect
-do-it-yourself
What do you like especially? Why?
What do you dislike? Why?
Price estimate by architect/planner:
Personal price limit for the house including equipment: 500,000 € for house including everything, also earthworks, kitchen, outdoor area (possibly in installments) and double garage
Preferred heating technology: gas not connected, therefore air-source heat pump, preferably with photovoltaics
If you had to forego some details/extensions
-You could live without: for now the third garage or carport for daily vehicle or oversized double/large garage, if planning allows later realization; self-contained apartment, living basement (if office on ground floor and utility room upstairs), basement (if slope allows and house footprint increases), stair-low access to the house, fireplace
-You cannot do without: 50 sqm open living/dining/kitchen, open living, mudroom, floor-to-ceiling windows, electric shutters,
somehow I’m stuck in a planning chaos and hope to get a few tips from you regarding the planning approach and/or ideas for implementation…
In particular, a cost estimate would probably help me with regard to the basement design. Or how many square meters of house we can afford. Can we save money if, instead of a living basement, we plan the garage in the basement and enlarge the house footprint to accommodate a guest room/office and utility room?
What is the most cost-effective way to achieve my desired level access to the large terrace and garden from the ground floor (living/dining/kitchen)? There should be enough space to at least partially accommodate an embankment with a slope.
Any ideas for the placement of the garage? I especially can’t quite visualize the slope.
We still have a total budget of 500,000 € (land already owned). It has to be somehow feasible with this budget to build a family house (not just standard equipped) with more than 130 sqm plus basement, garage and outdoor area in Baden-Württemberg, right?
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: approx. 769 sqm (access and final measurement still pending)
Slope: yes, 2 or 3 meters (6.5 or 10 feet) gradient
Floor area ratio: 0.4 (max. 0.6)
Floor space index: -
Building window, building line and boundary: 2.5 m (8 ft) setback from boundary
Edge development: garages, if connected to the main building; street-side 1 m (3 ft) distance
Number of parking spaces: 2
Number of floors: -
Roof shape: single-pitched (SD), half-hipped (vSD), gabled roof (WD) 30 - 40°: max ridge height 8.0 m (26 ft)
dormer roof (ZD), gable dormer (gD) 10 – 25°: max ridge height 8.0 m (26 ft)
flat roof (FD) 0 -5°: max parapet height 6.8 m (22 ft)
Architectural style: -
Orientation: parallel to the street or rotated 90°, see plan
Maximum heights/limits: height measured from reference height (highest point on our plot); max ridge height 8 m (26 ft) (for flat roof max parapet height 6.8 m (22 ft))
Additional requirements:
Client requirements:
Style: modern, but practicality on the outside more important than aesthetics!
Roof type: doesn’t matter, just no knee wall under 1.50 m (5 ft)
Building type: any
Basement, floors: initial idea is a living basement with a self-contained apartment; alternatively living basement with guest room/office or utility basement with integrated garage?? This is already part of the planning problem
Number of people, age: 36 and 38 + 1.5 years
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor:
GF: (level access with garden connection or large terrace) 50 sqm (540 sqft) for open living/dining/kitchen; the rest depends on wishes such as guest toilet or shower bathroom, entrance area/wardrobe as a mudroom to avoid dirt being brought into the house, circulation area for stairs and guest toilet not in the dirty area right at the front door; small office/spare guest room, possibly a pantry for vacuum cleaner, broom, etc.
UF: bathroom with double vanity, bathtub for two (180 x 80 cm (71 x 31 inches)), bright floor-tiled shower 1 x 1.2 m (3 x 4 ft) with glass door; one large (>15 sqm (160 sqft)) and one smaller (about 12-15 sqm (130-160 sqft)) children’s bedrooms; master bedroom, walk-in closet (accessible from the corridor), small hallway (no wasted space for large hallway, prefer bigger rooms), possibly utility room for washing machine, dryer, ironing and drying rack
Office: Family use or home office?: both; both adults work about one day a week from home.
Overnight guests per year: around 1-2 guests every 2 months, possibly increasing due to childcare
Open or closed architecture: open!
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern, many floor-to-ceiling windows, light light light…
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen!!! Preferably with an island (possibly not enough space); important: sink and work surface not against a wall and not facing away from living-dining area!! (Wish side-by-side fridge, tall oven)
Number of dining seats: 4-6 (more than 6 only with extendable table and chairs to be fetched)
Fireplace: possibly preparation
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: because of the slope garage roof on basement level as roof terrace for the ground floor
Garage, carport: double—preferably large garage. Two cars used only on weekends MUST fit in garage with some space for tools and repairs. For one daily-use car garage or carport (convenient getting in/out and short, low-stair access paths to house entrance, preferably under cover). One more daily car somewhere else (e.g. parking space in front of garage or similar)
Utility garden, greenhouse: no
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, also reasons why this or that should or should not be:
level access from kitchen/dining/living to garden is a must, alternatively large roof terrace leading to garden!
Future wishes: possibility to add a pool; smart home retrofit
House design
Designed by:
-builder’s planner
-architect
-do-it-yourself
What do you like especially? Why?
What do you dislike? Why?
Price estimate by architect/planner:
Personal price limit for the house including equipment: 500,000 € for house including everything, also earthworks, kitchen, outdoor area (possibly in installments) and double garage
Preferred heating technology: gas not connected, therefore air-source heat pump, preferably with photovoltaics
If you had to forego some details/extensions
-You could live without: for now the third garage or carport for daily vehicle or oversized double/large garage, if planning allows later realization; self-contained apartment, living basement (if office on ground floor and utility room upstairs), basement (if slope allows and house footprint increases), stair-low access to the house, fireplace
-You cannot do without: 50 sqm open living/dining/kitchen, open living, mudroom, floor-to-ceiling windows, electric shutters,
H
HilfeHilfe8 Mar 2019 15:24A house like this is built with an architect. They won’t deliver it for $500,000.
N
neigschmeckt8 Mar 2019 15:27Lumpi_LE schrieb:
Just a quick comment on your sketch:
You shouldn’t block the south side with a garage, unless it’s at basement level—in that case, you can build a nice terrace on top—but it’s not clear where the driveway is.
Half a million is enough.
Get an architect involved; sloped plots have a lot of potential, but they can also be easily messed up.The garage in that position is obviously planned at basement level. The driveway is on the right (southeast). The driveway could extend along the full 25 m (82 feet). The top street level is about 209.5 m (688 feet) and the lowest at 207.5 m (681 feet), while the reference elevation for the house is 210.5 m (691 feet).We’re a bit hesitant about hiring an independent architect, as almost all acquaintances have found architects to be way beyond their budget or delivered designs that felt very standard, more off-the-shelf than custom.
But if the further bids from construction companies are as disappointing as the first, we’ll probably have to follow the architect route.
Crossy schrieb:
Then calculate backwards first:
500k
- 20k for kitchen and small extras
- 25k for earthworks (naturally more expensive on a slope)
- 30k for additional construction costs
- 25k for double garage
- 20k for carport/entrance canopy
- 30k for landscaping (also costlier due to slope)
____________________
350k
At 2,000 EUR per square meter you can afford around 170 sqm (1,830 sq ft).The carport can definitely be built later and removed from the budget.We’re also counting on one income, which will be secure again once the second income is assured, so that shouldn’t be an issue.
However, our cost estimates are at least 5k higher on each item, so all that leaves is money for a tent.
Crossy schrieb:
I’m a bit confused about your thinking regarding basement/ground floor/upper floor.
Are you planning three stories then?
Since the slope rises, I’d plan a basement with entrance, kids’ rooms, dining area, bathroom, and utility room tucked into the hillside. Then the upper floor would have kitchen/living/dining + office + storage + guest bathroom.
So just two stories. Or am I misunderstanding your plan?Sorry for the confusion. Yes, three stories are planned. But we’ve also considered your two-story layout (sleeping in the basement and living on the ground floor, no upper floor). I’m not quite comfortable with that yet. The idea of living in a "hole" doesn’t appeal to me (although admittedly I lived in a "hole" for 20 years and didn’t really feel that way). Also, this would mean garden access only on the northwest side. The southwest side wouldn’t be covered from the basement. Then there’s the question—where would the garage go?Crossy schrieb:
When we got offers originally, we also asked about placing the garage underneath the house. It almost always ended up more expensive because it increases the house’s footprint, complicates thermal insulation, and you’d have to somehow support the slope beside the house and create a level terrace area in the garden.That’s exactly what I had already picked up here on the forum.N
neigschmeckt8 Mar 2019 15:31ypg schrieb:
I’m having trouble understanding the elevation data.
Otherwise, it seems like people are too restricted by the standard layperson’s framework and don’t consider that standard rooms can also be located in the basement level... The gray lines are the contour lines. The line marked 209 crosses horizontally. Top left is gray 210, and bottom right is 208. The reference elevations around are those of the neighboring properties.
My parents’ house has already moved beyond this framework, but sleeping in the basement is not my first choice, mainly because it would limit the opportunity to have a large garden accessible without steps. That’s exactly the case at my parents’ place. And a nice terrace with a garden doesn’t really help me sleep. The only very charming aspect of this solution, as a future dog owner, is that you just have to open the terrace door if the dog suddenly has digestive issues at night.
ypg schrieb:
Photos of the plot showing access routes and infrastructure would be helpful. The road is on the right side (sorry, I forgot to mention), and access across the entire width of the road is allowed. On all other sides, we have neighbors.
There are no photos yet because it’s just a meadow so far. Infrastructure work will only start in the middle of the year.
N
nordanney8 Mar 2019 16:05neigschmeckt schrieb:
We are somewhat apprehensive about working with an independent architect because nearly all acquaintances have ended up well beyond the architect’s budget or with designs that were more generic than ready-made ones. But if the other construction companies’ offers are as disappointing as the first one, we will probably have to go the architect route. Please let go of the hope that an architect will be much cheaper. Even then, you still need contractors or tradespeople who expect to be paid. What you do get, however, is a custom home tailored to your wishes and needs.H
HilfeHilfe8 Mar 2019 18:45If you already have a quote, what price is he asking for?
The house is roughly positioned at contour line 209, while the garage is at about 208.5, making it unsuitable in terms of height for rooftop terrace use and not recessed below the windows on the south side – from my perspective, the plan needs revision.
The reference elevation of the plot is 210.5 (compared to the 209 contour line passing through the house). What may be advantageous for one aspect (favorable for the knee wall height) can be problematic for another (the basement’s view height from the ground is unfortunately measured according to the original terrain, not the reference elevation, which is a critical factor for a full-story classification).
Raising the house closer to the reference elevation reduces the potential knee wall height and would lift the basement too much; however, this would be necessary for a garage entirely below the ground floor level. 1. Therefore, as currently sketched, I do not see this as a viable arrangement, and 2. I consider the ground floor floor level around 209 or 209.5 to be most suitable.
3. Overall, I believe a high level of architectural skill is required here—something that a general contractor’s draftsman rarely brings.
Regarding the desired knee wall height above 150cm (about 59 inches), it should be noted that a knee wall is always a dividing line: either only façade and dormer windows are installed below it on the eaves side and roof windows above, or dormer roofs must be used. Angled windows spanning both surfaces have never really caught on, and for good reason. Therefore, I advise against such oversized knee walls, and see a practical height more likely around 120cm (between 100 and 125cm) (about 47 inches, between 39 and 49 inches). A well-sized knee wall completely substitutes a dwarf wall but should not exceed it.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
The reference elevation of the plot is 210.5 (compared to the 209 contour line passing through the house). What may be advantageous for one aspect (favorable for the knee wall height) can be problematic for another (the basement’s view height from the ground is unfortunately measured according to the original terrain, not the reference elevation, which is a critical factor for a full-story classification).
Raising the house closer to the reference elevation reduces the potential knee wall height and would lift the basement too much; however, this would be necessary for a garage entirely below the ground floor level. 1. Therefore, as currently sketched, I do not see this as a viable arrangement, and 2. I consider the ground floor floor level around 209 or 209.5 to be most suitable.
3. Overall, I believe a high level of architectural skill is required here—something that a general contractor’s draftsman rarely brings.
Regarding the desired knee wall height above 150cm (about 59 inches), it should be noted that a knee wall is always a dividing line: either only façade and dormer windows are installed below it on the eaves side and roof windows above, or dormer roofs must be used. Angled windows spanning both surfaces have never really caught on, and for good reason. Therefore, I advise against such oversized knee walls, and see a practical height more likely around 120cm (between 100 and 125cm) (about 47 inches, between 39 and 49 inches). A well-sized knee wall completely substitutes a dwarf wall but should not exceed it.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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