ᐅ Log Cabin with Half-Hipped Roof by the Forest – How to Improve the Design?
Created on: 11 Jun 2018 19:45
K
keychain
Hello everyone,
We have been planning and actively reading for over a year now. As our plans become more concrete, we would like to present our design and get your feedback.
First of all: Yes, the house is big. It is our dream, we are doing a lot of the work ourselves, and we know that we cannot extend it further — the situation here is a bit unusual, as strictly speaking this is only officially buildable land for a short time window.
A brief introduction: I am 36 years old and co-owner of an IT company. My partner is 31 and works as a lecturer. About two years ago, we found our dream plot — a little over 2800sqm (about 0.7 acres), with direct forest access and located in the third row. All neighboring plots are, as far as possible, already built on, mostly with former weekend houses or residential homes.
First, the questionnaire:
Building plan / restrictions?
No, there is no building plan, so we are following common local building standards. The neighboring house has two full stories, which we are using as a reference.
Plot size
2800sqm (about 0.7 acres)
Slope
Slight slope; we are on a ridge of the Ore Mountains. The building site has a height difference of max. 60cm (about 2 feet) from northeast to southwest. The entire plot slopes about 1.80m (6 feet) downward to the south along the west boundary. Rocky ground starting at 2.5m (8 feet) depth.
Plot ratio / floor area ratio
No exact figures known; according to the lawyer from the building permit office, we are well within limits.
Building envelope, building line and boundary
None
Boundary setbacks
Do you mean setback distances and boundary construction? If so: 3m (10 feet) all around; boundary construction for sheds and garages is theoretically permitted.
Number of parking spaces
1–2 under the porch + double garage.
Number of floors
2
Roof type
Half-hipped roof (Dutch hip roof).
Architectural style
Hmm... not sure?
Orientation
South-southwest
Maximum height/limits
None
Other requirements
Homeowners’ needs
We want our house to welcome us. Warm wood, natural building materials, lots of light and air — high ceilings, large beams. It should blend well with the environment, be warm and cozy.
Style, roof type, building type
Log house made from glue-laminated beams (probably Finnlog).
Basement, floors
Fully basemented with two full floors.
Number of residents, age
Currently 2 people. Children may come, parents as well.
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor
Currently about 300sqm (about 3200 sqft). This seems quite large, but looking at individual rooms (living/dining area) I don’t know where else to put the sound system. Maybe the planning is off or our space expectations are. We don’t have a TV; the fireplace is the central element.
Office: family use or home office?
An office is planned, but only as a fallback. I don’t want to work from home and only need space for private files and a desk.
Guest bedrooms per year
Variable, currently very few. Hopefully many more with the house — then we can accommodate them.
Open or closed architecture
Mixed. I prefer open, but an open void above the living area is not possible if you don’t want all cooking smells in the bedroom.
Traditional or modern construction
Hmm... solid wood house? Traditional.
Open kitchen, cooking island
An open, large kitchen with a big island where more than two people can cook comfortably. No seating in the kitchen, but a huge workspace.
Number of dining seats
10
Fireplace
Yes, a large soapstone stove.
Music / stereo wall
I am considering installating a Sonos system with a music room in the basement.
Balcony, roof terrace
No; we have a garden for that.
Garage, carport
Both; at least the entrance canopy is large enough for one car.
Vegetable garden, greenhouse
We want a greenhouse, a swimming pond, and a fire pit.
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why or why not
House design
Who designed it:
The design was created with an architect, based on our drafts.
What do you particularly like? Why?
High ceilings and visible ceiling beams on the upper floor, separated area upstairs for us, the fireplace room as a second retreat, the single-story “extension” for the dining room, the large kitchen, the fireplaces... and especially the abundant wood.
What don’t you like? Why?
The gable windows should get an added triangular top to maximize light. The current window layout feels a bit outdated. We actually wanted an open void, but this can’t be sensibly integrated. Heating is a constant issue and never fully resolved.
The worst: the master bathroom fixtures. We want a large bathtub and a double shower. Either the bathroom is too small or we lack imagination. It doesn’t look cozy...
Preferred heating system: currently unfortunately natural gas. Solid fuel heating is out for various reasons: a wood gasifier is too expensive and labor-intensive; pellet or woodchip stoves are not economical, plus we can’t reliably get deliveries in winter when the road is snowed in. Natural gas is about 100m (330 feet) away; we are still waiting for connection cost estimates. Heat pumps only make financial sense with geothermal; however, installation and technology would then be more expensive than a current compact car. We do not want oil heating or liquefied gas tanks.
If you have to omit something, which details/extensions
-can you omit:
-can you not omit:
Why is the design like it is now? For example:
The architect received a draft from us, every room was discussed beforehand (use, size, contents), and the design was revised multiple times. We like that it implements nearly everything we wanted and that the house does not look too bulky — due to the half-hipped roof and the gables, it does not seem so on the plans at least.
What is your most important / basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Apart from the effort for plastering: is the floor plan practical? For example: washing machine on the first floor where laundry occurs, bathroom for the children...
Now some free text — our notes:
Some things are already different from the plans:
We have also been thinking about other things:
I think that’s it. Thanks for your opinions!
We have been planning and actively reading for over a year now. As our plans become more concrete, we would like to present our design and get your feedback.
First of all: Yes, the house is big. It is our dream, we are doing a lot of the work ourselves, and we know that we cannot extend it further — the situation here is a bit unusual, as strictly speaking this is only officially buildable land for a short time window.
A brief introduction: I am 36 years old and co-owner of an IT company. My partner is 31 and works as a lecturer. About two years ago, we found our dream plot — a little over 2800sqm (about 0.7 acres), with direct forest access and located in the third row. All neighboring plots are, as far as possible, already built on, mostly with former weekend houses or residential homes.
First, the questionnaire:
Building plan / restrictions?
No, there is no building plan, so we are following common local building standards. The neighboring house has two full stories, which we are using as a reference.
Plot size
2800sqm (about 0.7 acres)
Slope
Slight slope; we are on a ridge of the Ore Mountains. The building site has a height difference of max. 60cm (about 2 feet) from northeast to southwest. The entire plot slopes about 1.80m (6 feet) downward to the south along the west boundary. Rocky ground starting at 2.5m (8 feet) depth.
Plot ratio / floor area ratio
No exact figures known; according to the lawyer from the building permit office, we are well within limits.
Building envelope, building line and boundary
None
Boundary setbacks
Do you mean setback distances and boundary construction? If so: 3m (10 feet) all around; boundary construction for sheds and garages is theoretically permitted.
Number of parking spaces
1–2 under the porch + double garage.
Number of floors
2
Roof type
Half-hipped roof (Dutch hip roof).
Architectural style
Hmm... not sure?
Orientation
South-southwest
Maximum height/limits
None
Other requirements
Homeowners’ needs
We want our house to welcome us. Warm wood, natural building materials, lots of light and air — high ceilings, large beams. It should blend well with the environment, be warm and cozy.
Style, roof type, building type
Log house made from glue-laminated beams (probably Finnlog).
Basement, floors
Fully basemented with two full floors.
Number of residents, age
Currently 2 people. Children may come, parents as well.
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor
Currently about 300sqm (about 3200 sqft). This seems quite large, but looking at individual rooms (living/dining area) I don’t know where else to put the sound system. Maybe the planning is off or our space expectations are. We don’t have a TV; the fireplace is the central element.
Office: family use or home office?
An office is planned, but only as a fallback. I don’t want to work from home and only need space for private files and a desk.
Guest bedrooms per year
Variable, currently very few. Hopefully many more with the house — then we can accommodate them.
Open or closed architecture
Mixed. I prefer open, but an open void above the living area is not possible if you don’t want all cooking smells in the bedroom.
Traditional or modern construction
Hmm... solid wood house? Traditional.
Open kitchen, cooking island
An open, large kitchen with a big island where more than two people can cook comfortably. No seating in the kitchen, but a huge workspace.
Number of dining seats
10
Fireplace
Yes, a large soapstone stove.
Music / stereo wall
I am considering installating a Sonos system with a music room in the basement.
Balcony, roof terrace
No; we have a garden for that.
Garage, carport
Both; at least the entrance canopy is large enough for one car.
Vegetable garden, greenhouse
We want a greenhouse, a swimming pond, and a fire pit.
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why or why not
House design
Who designed it:
The design was created with an architect, based on our drafts.
What do you particularly like? Why?
High ceilings and visible ceiling beams on the upper floor, separated area upstairs for us, the fireplace room as a second retreat, the single-story “extension” for the dining room, the large kitchen, the fireplaces... and especially the abundant wood.
What don’t you like? Why?
The gable windows should get an added triangular top to maximize light. The current window layout feels a bit outdated. We actually wanted an open void, but this can’t be sensibly integrated. Heating is a constant issue and never fully resolved.
The worst: the master bathroom fixtures. We want a large bathtub and a double shower. Either the bathroom is too small or we lack imagination. It doesn’t look cozy...
Preferred heating system: currently unfortunately natural gas. Solid fuel heating is out for various reasons: a wood gasifier is too expensive and labor-intensive; pellet or woodchip stoves are not economical, plus we can’t reliably get deliveries in winter when the road is snowed in. Natural gas is about 100m (330 feet) away; we are still waiting for connection cost estimates. Heat pumps only make financial sense with geothermal; however, installation and technology would then be more expensive than a current compact car. We do not want oil heating or liquefied gas tanks.
If you have to omit something, which details/extensions
-can you omit:
-can you not omit:
Why is the design like it is now? For example:
The architect received a draft from us, every room was discussed beforehand (use, size, contents), and the design was revised multiple times. We like that it implements nearly everything we wanted and that the house does not look too bulky — due to the half-hipped roof and the gables, it does not seem so on the plans at least.
What is your most important / basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Apart from the effort for plastering: is the floor plan practical? For example: washing machine on the first floor where laundry occurs, bathroom for the children...
Now some free text — our notes:
Some things are already different from the plans:
- All windows can be opened.
- Sliding doors open outwards, not inwards.
- All dormer windows will not be rectangular but have added triangular tops.
- Between the hallway and living area there is no central post; instead, a large double door is planned.
- The basement has a technical room beside the stairs, designed as a through room. In my opinion, this is a poor solution; we probably also need to plan a separate boiler room.
- Where the embankment is drawn, doors will be installed. This will allow the large rooms to get natural daylight and be usable living space.
- The stair step projecting into the hallway is bad and will definitely be removed.
We have also been thinking about other things:
- The hallway upstairs is planned as a “library.” To bring in light, we intend to use two light wells with diameters of 30–35cm (12–14 inches). The advantage: it will never be completely dark at night when someone needs to use the bathroom.
- The fireplace will be a soapstone stove; no plan exists yet. Strictly speaking, it will not stand against a wall but form the wall itself. We also planned a second connection in the fireplace room; originally we wanted a tunnel fireplace but were convinced it’s not a good idea as a room divider.
- The children’s rooms are not ideal — one faces north, the other south. We could make two narrow, elongated rooms and a corridor so both face south, but we consider that clearly suboptimal.
- All doors on the ground floor will be 1m (3.3 feet) wide to at least accommodate wheelchair access reasonably.
I think that’s it. Thanks for your opinions!
haydee schrieb:
Somehow, you’ve made quite a few compromises now.
No basement
Wellness area brought inside the house
No fireplace room, no library
Very small bedrooms, tiny walk-in closet
Is that really what you want?
Compare the room sizes and the roomsI’ll try to explain step by step; this wasn’t a random decision:
I wanted the basement mainly for storage and potentially to create additional space for the parents. However, in the planning process, the drawbacks clearly outweighed the benefits:
- Very expensive
- Requires a waterproof concrete shell (so-called “white tank”)
- Exterior insulation limits the choice of contractors
- Septic system becomes much more complicated
- Excavation work must be done in rock
- Creating daylight access through slope landscaping is complex
- The rooms would need to be planned as living space from the start or require costly later conversion
This way, we have all rooms on one level, one less staircase, and the apartment can be separated at any time; until then, it can be used as a guest area. We would have needed the second kitchen anyway in a separate apartment, but now we can also use it if the mentioned child-garden issue arises or if we have a party in the garden and don’t want to use the stairs.
Wellness area inside the house:
It’s no longer outside, but this makes the connections much easier, I don’t need an additional building permit/planning permission, and it’s equally accessible for all visitors and residents. The large bathtub is also not located in either the children’s or master bathroom, which we see as an advantage.
We no longer have a separate fireplace room/library, but the living room still serves those functions. The idea behind the separate fireplace room in the initial design posted here came from wanting a second living room, so guests could retreat to a kind of “gentlemen’s lounge.” That won’t happen now; the area with the Chesterfield sofas will be in the living room instead. There is a second living room downstairs that will initially have a pool table and a fireplace.
Small bedrooms: Yes, that’s a specific preference. We only sleep in the bedroom and don’t need more than 12-16 sq m (130-170 sq ft). Most people even have less in their houses. The bed fits in, but we prefer to allocate space to the children or other areas. I see it similarly for the guest rooms; here I’m even planning smaller beds. Not every room needs to have a 2.2 m by 2.2 m (7.2 ft by 7.2 ft) play area.
I still need to reconsider the walk-in closet. Before the staircase moved there, we had 6 m (20 ft) of closet space, which seemed a bit too much for me.
Climbee schrieb:
I’ve been tweaking a practical design for a while. Given the dimensions, I’d probably move away from a simple rectangle.
Let me summarize again:
- large kitchen
- table for 10–12 people
- quiet living area, possibly a separate library
- stove
- living unit for the parents, ideally separated from the rest of the house and also usable as an office/guest unit (should it include a kitchen if the parents move in? I don’t recall that in the first drafts)
- luxurious parents’ zone with wellness area
- separated children’s area with its own bathroom
Did I forget anything?I’m trying to put everything together:
The only ultimate limits are set by the required setback areas: maximum width about 27m (89 feet), maximum depth according to the building authority about 40m (131 feet) — though we don’t want to build a gymnasium (just kidding).
Planning must fit within this rectangle. Driveway at the northwest corner, where the garage is currently planned.
Our wishes:
- a parents’ area no bigger than necessary, with the walk-in closet as the central passage space. We only need room for a large bed in the bedroom, a 4–6m (13–20 feet) Pax wardrobe in the closet, and in the bathroom two sinks, a shower for two (1m x 2m (3.3 ft x 6.6 ft)), and a toilet.
- children’s rooms ideally on the same level as the kitchen/living room, about 20 sqm (215 sq ft), with their own bathroom including shower, toilet, and sink.
- kitchen planned at 4.5m x 6m (15 ft x 20 ft) plus circulation space on both exterior sides; wood-burning stove with baking compartment must be accessible.
- dining area with table for 8–12 people
- living room with bookshelves and a small fireplace
- wellness area accessible for everyone, not located in a passage room, ideally with direct access outdoors for jumping into the pond
- guest room ideally separable as an independent apartment for the elderly parents
- toilet near every entrance, plus a shower at the main entrance for athletes and muddy pets
- utility room
- storage space for groceries and other storage needs
- glazing on the south side
- bedrooms preferably facing north
I think that covers it. Does this help you?
Thanks for your effort!
ypg schrieb:
This design reminds me of a church converted into a monastery. I wonder who would want to walk through these corridors.keychain schrieb:
We do, which is why we are (so far) satisfied. Well, if it’s supposed to be like a church, I want to remind you about the ceiling heights. 2.40m (7 ft 10 in) is nothing. Our house is a bit more than half the size of yours and we have 2.65m (8 ft 8 in) ceiling height. The bigger the house, the higher the ceilings should be; otherwise, it looks like a barrack. I would suggest at least 2.70m (8 ft 10 in) for your place.ypg schrieb:
The door in the corner: we’ll try again and check with both the kitchen studio and the architect. I didn’t like the initial idea of having the door open into the hallway either.There’s not much to fiddle with. Move it 1m (3 ft 3 in) over and everything will be fine. When you test the distances in the kitchen, you’ll find that for example, 1.20m (4 ft) is a good working distance to the “counter.” So the corridor would be too narrow anyway.keychain schrieb:
Basically, I understand that you don’t like it, message received. We like the idea of separating the floors, but we were also told: symmetry is the beauty of simple minds. That’s just a matter of taste, and I don’t even find that bad.Yes, symmetry is the aesthetics of fools. We know that saying too. But what’s the connection? I find it funny that Yvonne’s asymmetrical shed roof house is now declared the symmetric fool. Ridiculous.This arrogance deserves some criticism:
I’m far from “liking” this design. I would start with quality of life. The keyword “walking distances” alone could fill pages here. The person who has to carry groceries to the pantry already has my sympathy.
After that comes the lighting concept — dark north-facing rooms for the children, long dark corridors without natural light, storage rooms with no light at all. Bad planning.
With such a luxury lump, one also wants everyday luxury. I don’t want to carry laundry all over the house. Even if I can afford to have Anna from Poland do it, she constantly runs up and down my stairs through the living room. Annoying. Or is a laundry chute planned? Is there a laundry area outside? How do you get there from the utility room?
Then there’s this disproportionately tiny dressing room (considering the overall size of the house). Why is that?
What about a cloakroom? Should all of that be stuck on the wall in the long narrow corridor? That already reminds me of those endless small lockers we lined up in school.
Although the open-plan living area is huge, it will only feel long and narrow. The staircase is supposed to act as a room divider—but in the end, the space behind the stairs becomes disproportionately narrow. What do I do with the narrow 3m (10 ft) wide space behind the stairs in the living room? Keep in mind that no wall thicknesses have been included yet. Everything will be even narrower than it looks now, including the dressing room.
In this luxury liner, there are now 4 toilets—hats off. Too bad the guest WC downstairs doesn’t have a window.
With such a budget, wouldn’t you consider a separate room for the children’s nanny or housekeeper? Are they allowed to use the guest wing, or is that just for guests?
I’m with Climbee that with a house this size, a simple rectangle won’t really work well. I still don’t understand why you insist on your own design. In my opinion, this project belongs in the hands of a good architect. I’m equally puzzled as to why you can’t find one.
So, I had a boring meeting, so I doodled a bit.
However, I’m missing some final info, for example that a basement is absolutely not possible (if I had to drill into the rock, I would cancel immediately).
So my design is currently missing the technical room I had planned as a basement with outside access. I’m mainly focusing on the concept here.
For the size, I find a purely rectangular house difficult. I would also reflect the zoning in the floor plan, for example the area that the parents might live in someday. Until then, it could be used as a guest or office space, but it is clearly structured and recognizable in my design. From the entrance, you can look straight into the garden, and there is sufficient space for a coat rack. As long as the parents aren’t there yet, you might even consider not finishing the WC (marked with a "?" on the plan) but only showing it on the plan. Then it could temporarily be used as a closet.
The kitchen roughly matches your dimensions. For the stove, only two options are possible: under the ridge or on an external wall. Here it could be placed on the wall towards the coat area or as part of the kitchen run if it is mainly for cooking. Otherwise, it could also be positioned as a room-dividing element between living and dining areas, but then the path from the kitchen would be longer. So first decide what the priority is: a nice stove where I can watch the fire, or do I want to regularly use it for roasting?
Unfortunately, the meeting was too short to discuss the upper floor *g*
But here I would plan the children’s area above the owners’ area (I have used the owners’ area for the parents of the owners). Possibly the children’s bathroom could still be placed above the entrance.
The corner between living and kitchen I imagined as a covered terrace; this can be solved by extending the roof here so the terrace is open up to the roof, or I extend the floor slab over this corner and use the space above either as living space or as a balcony.
The staircase is prominently placed and especially since there is no basement underneath (otherwise I would have arranged it differently, starting the stairs from the living area), this works very well design-wise.
Upstairs you can (but don’t have to) plan a gallery with an open space over the living and/or dining area. In any case, the library can be accommodated in the middle part. Above the right section of the house I would place the private area of the owners.
As long as there are no children yet, these two rooms can be used as a fitness room, additional bedroom, etc., or as a second guest area if there are more visitors.
What is important to me is that the zoning is reflected in the floor plan and you don’t just have a long rectangle with the risk of a “church atmosphere” and long narrow corridors.
Many glass fronts are planned at the front to take advantage of the view.
So not to be considered final, but for reflection:
The pink outlined area is basically the “extension,” which should also visually stand out in the floor plan and contains the children’s area on the upper floor (that was my basic idea).
Oh, and as so often desperately requested: with an appropriate roof overhang, you can also walk from the garage to the entrance without getting wet.
However, I’m missing some final info, for example that a basement is absolutely not possible (if I had to drill into the rock, I would cancel immediately).
So my design is currently missing the technical room I had planned as a basement with outside access. I’m mainly focusing on the concept here.
For the size, I find a purely rectangular house difficult. I would also reflect the zoning in the floor plan, for example the area that the parents might live in someday. Until then, it could be used as a guest or office space, but it is clearly structured and recognizable in my design. From the entrance, you can look straight into the garden, and there is sufficient space for a coat rack. As long as the parents aren’t there yet, you might even consider not finishing the WC (marked with a "?" on the plan) but only showing it on the plan. Then it could temporarily be used as a closet.
The kitchen roughly matches your dimensions. For the stove, only two options are possible: under the ridge or on an external wall. Here it could be placed on the wall towards the coat area or as part of the kitchen run if it is mainly for cooking. Otherwise, it could also be positioned as a room-dividing element between living and dining areas, but then the path from the kitchen would be longer. So first decide what the priority is: a nice stove where I can watch the fire, or do I want to regularly use it for roasting?
Unfortunately, the meeting was too short to discuss the upper floor *g*
But here I would plan the children’s area above the owners’ area (I have used the owners’ area for the parents of the owners). Possibly the children’s bathroom could still be placed above the entrance.
The corner between living and kitchen I imagined as a covered terrace; this can be solved by extending the roof here so the terrace is open up to the roof, or I extend the floor slab over this corner and use the space above either as living space or as a balcony.
The staircase is prominently placed and especially since there is no basement underneath (otherwise I would have arranged it differently, starting the stairs from the living area), this works very well design-wise.
Upstairs you can (but don’t have to) plan a gallery with an open space over the living and/or dining area. In any case, the library can be accommodated in the middle part. Above the right section of the house I would place the private area of the owners.
As long as there are no children yet, these two rooms can be used as a fitness room, additional bedroom, etc., or as a second guest area if there are more visitors.
What is important to me is that the zoning is reflected in the floor plan and you don’t just have a long rectangle with the risk of a “church atmosphere” and long narrow corridors.
Many glass fronts are planned at the front to take advantage of the view.
So not to be considered final, but for reflection:
The pink outlined area is basically the “extension,” which should also visually stand out in the floor plan and contains the children’s area on the upper floor (that was my basic idea).
Oh, and as so often desperately requested: with an appropriate roof overhang, you can also walk from the garage to the entrance without getting wet.
kaho674 schrieb:
I find it funny that Yvonne’s asymmetrical shed roof house is being called symmetrical idiot. Was that so unclear? I’m referring to myself—and only myself. We have now strictly divided everything and organized the previously "fragmented" layout.
kaho674 schrieb:
If you test the distances in the kitchen, you’ll find that, for example, 1.20m (4 feet) is a good working distance to the ‘counter.’ So the walkway would be too narrow anyway. Strangely, all the distances between the island and the kitchen in our plan are exactly 1.20m (4 feet). Or do you mean the passage to the door? That one is only 1.10m (3 feet 7 inches), that’s correct. But of course, it’s something we need to review. If I’m seeing this right, your version also makes the island smaller, which is quite disadvantageous because it affects the cooking and prep area.
kaho674 schrieb:
Or is a laundry chute planned? It’s marked on the plan (with WA for laundry chute).
I will write something about the height shortly; it seems there’s quite a bit of confusion here. Maybe I should start a new thread so we can clarify all the cross-references properly.
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