ᐅ Renovation Planning for Existing Properties – Tips and Suggestions Welcome
Created on: 29 Apr 2018 22:15
C
Chiloe
Hello housebuilding experts,
We (female, 32 years old + male, 35 years old from the Bielefeld area) plan to convert a property currently used as a two-family rental house for our own use starting next year. The property is a two-family house built in 1971/1972 using solid construction with sand-lime brick masonry. The house has a full basement, a separate garage building (double garage), and is situated on a plot of about 840 square meters (9,042 square feet). It has been family-owned since the mid-1990s and has so far been used as a rental property.
Since we have now also started dealing with the topic of building a house, we have come to the conclusion that the location and size of the house generally meet our requirements. In recent years, various renovation measures were primarily carried out by ourselves. However, some of the “major tasks” (façade, windows, roof...) still remain, and significant financial expenses are expected in the coming years. With a new private construction, we would have to bear a double financial burden. Of course, it would be nice in the long term to still own a rental property, but the house is located in a rather rural area, which we personally like, but which is generally considered a disadvantage for a future profitable rental.
The current status is as follows (renovation so far assuming continued rental use):
- The basement has been excavated all around, drainage renewed, and the basement walls were widened for planned insulation and cladding.
- Basement ceiling has been insulated.
- Relatively new gas condensing boiler and wall radiators.
- Electrical and plumbing installations in the basement have been renewed.
Still necessary:
- Complete roof insulation. If the property remains rented, this could also be done on the upper floor ceiling; however, for own use this is not an option, as we want to convert the roof space into additional living space (extra children’s rooms). In this case, the roof will be completely removed and rebuilt.
- Façade insulation and cladding.
- Replacement of windows.
- For owner occupancy, a south-side extension is planned – the ground floor would serve as a dining room and the upper floor as a balcony. We understand that the balcony may hardly be used due to the garden, but the effort and cost for this measure are probably negligible in the overall context.
- Changes to the floor plan for owner occupancy.
I have attached an overview of the current condition and planned changes as pictures. An architect has not been involved in the planning so far. A structural engineer has only checked that the open living and dining area on the ground floor could be structurally realized without a large crossbeam under the ceiling, using a “arched support” (I don’t know the technical term) in the upper floor wall – naturally with corresponding costs. The size and position of windows and doors are still reasonably flexible.
Our two main questions, where we hope to receive tips and suggestions from you:
1) How do you assess the project in terms of cost-benefit ratio? We have roughly estimated that a comparable new build including land plus renovation of the existing property would be at least twice as expensive, namely €250,000 (about $270,000) versus at least €600,000 (about $650,000). What would you do a) renovate expensively for own use, b) renovate more cheaply for continued rental and build new, or c) sell the existing property and build new?
2) What do you think about our current floor plan? We would like to have an open plan kitchen-living area, but our main concern is that the spatial impression in such a large room might feel quite “oppressive” due to the relatively low room height of only about 2.65 meters (8 ft 8 in) in the shell. Moreover, considering a possible future change of heating technology, the size of the kitchen-living area, and the desire to have floor-to-ceiling windows on the south and west sides, we want to install underfloor heating right away, which would further reduce the effective room height.
We are generally open to any suggestions and look forward to an active discussion. If we have forgotten important details or pictures, please let us know and we will provide them promptly.
Thank you very much!
We (female, 32 years old + male, 35 years old from the Bielefeld area) plan to convert a property currently used as a two-family rental house for our own use starting next year. The property is a two-family house built in 1971/1972 using solid construction with sand-lime brick masonry. The house has a full basement, a separate garage building (double garage), and is situated on a plot of about 840 square meters (9,042 square feet). It has been family-owned since the mid-1990s and has so far been used as a rental property.
Since we have now also started dealing with the topic of building a house, we have come to the conclusion that the location and size of the house generally meet our requirements. In recent years, various renovation measures were primarily carried out by ourselves. However, some of the “major tasks” (façade, windows, roof...) still remain, and significant financial expenses are expected in the coming years. With a new private construction, we would have to bear a double financial burden. Of course, it would be nice in the long term to still own a rental property, but the house is located in a rather rural area, which we personally like, but which is generally considered a disadvantage for a future profitable rental.
The current status is as follows (renovation so far assuming continued rental use):
- The basement has been excavated all around, drainage renewed, and the basement walls were widened for planned insulation and cladding.
- Basement ceiling has been insulated.
- Relatively new gas condensing boiler and wall radiators.
- Electrical and plumbing installations in the basement have been renewed.
Still necessary:
- Complete roof insulation. If the property remains rented, this could also be done on the upper floor ceiling; however, for own use this is not an option, as we want to convert the roof space into additional living space (extra children’s rooms). In this case, the roof will be completely removed and rebuilt.
- Façade insulation and cladding.
- Replacement of windows.
- For owner occupancy, a south-side extension is planned – the ground floor would serve as a dining room and the upper floor as a balcony. We understand that the balcony may hardly be used due to the garden, but the effort and cost for this measure are probably negligible in the overall context.
- Changes to the floor plan for owner occupancy.
I have attached an overview of the current condition and planned changes as pictures. An architect has not been involved in the planning so far. A structural engineer has only checked that the open living and dining area on the ground floor could be structurally realized without a large crossbeam under the ceiling, using a “arched support” (I don’t know the technical term) in the upper floor wall – naturally with corresponding costs. The size and position of windows and doors are still reasonably flexible.
Our two main questions, where we hope to receive tips and suggestions from you:
1) How do you assess the project in terms of cost-benefit ratio? We have roughly estimated that a comparable new build including land plus renovation of the existing property would be at least twice as expensive, namely €250,000 (about $270,000) versus at least €600,000 (about $650,000). What would you do a) renovate expensively for own use, b) renovate more cheaply for continued rental and build new, or c) sell the existing property and build new?
2) What do you think about our current floor plan? We would like to have an open plan kitchen-living area, but our main concern is that the spatial impression in such a large room might feel quite “oppressive” due to the relatively low room height of only about 2.65 meters (8 ft 8 in) in the shell. Moreover, considering a possible future change of heating technology, the size of the kitchen-living area, and the desire to have floor-to-ceiling windows on the south and west sides, we want to install underfloor heating right away, which would further reduce the effective room height.
We are generally open to any suggestions and look forward to an active discussion. If we have forgotten important details or pictures, please let us know and we will provide them promptly.
Thank you very much!
Ah, I can now also recognize the upper floor 🙂
I wouldn’t create a gallery because it would then be located above the kitchen. That would actually cause unpleasant noises up there. Besides, there is also the balcony that needs to be accessible.
The house, including the upper floor and the idea of the gallery, actually has a lot of similarities to a thread from a few weeks ago – the title was about ceiling height. You might want to look it up.
I wouldn’t create a gallery because it would then be located above the kitchen. That would actually cause unpleasant noises up there. Besides, there is also the balcony that needs to be accessible.
The house, including the upper floor and the idea of the gallery, actually has a lot of similarities to a thread from a few weeks ago – the title was about ceiling height. You might want to look it up.
@Chiloe
Regarding the reading nook and the number of children's rooms, I would like to add a comment:
Currently, you are planning for one children's room in your early 30s. From my experience, I can say that one child can quickly become two once the first child arrives. I even know several cases where people only wanted one child, and suddenly had two... So, I would recommend planning at least one children's room plus one guest room.
One more note about your living room:
How much firewood do you plan to burn each season? I heat quite actively and therefore plan an optimized route between the firewood storage area in the garden and the storage spot inside the house. Bringing in firewood is always a messy task, so the route should be as short as possible. Would you be bringing the firewood in through the terrace?
Regarding the bathroom on the first floor:
I understand that you have space allocated for a bathroom in this area. You might want to plan out the bathroom layout in detail—that is, where the shower, bathtub, etc., will be placed. This way, it will be easier to assess if there are any unused areas, and whether it might be better to combine or repurpose a different room instead.
Regarding the reading nook and the number of children's rooms, I would like to add a comment:
Currently, you are planning for one children's room in your early 30s. From my experience, I can say that one child can quickly become two once the first child arrives. I even know several cases where people only wanted one child, and suddenly had two... So, I would recommend planning at least one children's room plus one guest room.
One more note about your living room:
How much firewood do you plan to burn each season? I heat quite actively and therefore plan an optimized route between the firewood storage area in the garden and the storage spot inside the house. Bringing in firewood is always a messy task, so the route should be as short as possible. Would you be bringing the firewood in through the terrace?
Regarding the bathroom on the first floor:
I understand that you have space allocated for a bathroom in this area. You might want to plan out the bathroom layout in detail—that is, where the shower, bathtub, etc., will be placed. This way, it will be easier to assess if there are any unused areas, and whether it might be better to combine or repurpose a different room instead.
@ypg
Could you please explain exactly what you mean by that?
We have followed that topic. In fact, the idea of the open space came from some contributors who felt that the sense of space in a large room with relatively low ceiling height suffers quite a bit. Perhaps we misunderstood something, so we will reread that discussion.
@Flasher
Well, we are actually planning for one child’s room on the upper floor and, if needed, two additional children’s rooms in the attic. As a guest room for occasional use, we are currently planning to use the study on the ground floor.
We will probably need to plan for an additional opening in the stairwell. Currently, there is a passage between the house and the garage leading to the garden. After insulating and cladding the main house and cladding the garage, there will likely not be enough space left for a proper passage there—especially since omitting that passage could allow for a more open entrance area. Therefore, we plan to install an extra exterior door in the northern outer wall behind the front door (in front of the staircase leading down to the basement). I think this door would be better suited for transporting firewood.
We have already contacted a plumbing specialist for the design of the bathrooms on the ground and upper floors. If it turns out that our requirements can be realized on a significantly smaller area, a revised floor plan for the upper floor may be considered. We just want to avoid having a hallway on the upper floor without any natural light, as it is in the current unrenovated condition. Also, it should be possible to access the balcony without having to walk through a child’s or bedroom first. The alternative would probably be a long corridor with a balcony door in the southern outer wall, which in turn would limit the usable space for a fully functional room instead of a reading or play area.
-> Leave the corner of the house/extension visible, keep 1.50/2.00 meters clear, then add a wall section...
Could you please explain exactly what you mean by that?
Room height: no problem, take a look at the last 5 weeks in the forum, same topic
We have followed that topic. In fact, the idea of the open space came from some contributors who felt that the sense of space in a large room with relatively low ceiling height suffers quite a bit. Perhaps we misunderstood something, so we will reread that discussion.
@Flasher
Currently you are planning with early 30s and one child's room.
Well, we are actually planning for one child’s room on the upper floor and, if needed, two additional children’s rooms in the attic. As a guest room for occasional use, we are currently planning to use the study on the ground floor.
Would you bring the firewood in over the terrace?
We will probably need to plan for an additional opening in the stairwell. Currently, there is a passage between the house and the garage leading to the garden. After insulating and cladding the main house and cladding the garage, there will likely not be enough space left for a proper passage there—especially since omitting that passage could allow for a more open entrance area. Therefore, we plan to install an extra exterior door in the northern outer wall behind the front door (in front of the staircase leading down to the basement). I think this door would be better suited for transporting firewood.
I understand you have space for a bathroom in this area. You could try planning the bathroom layout, i.e., where the shower, bathtub, etc. will be located.
We have already contacted a plumbing specialist for the design of the bathrooms on the ground and upper floors. If it turns out that our requirements can be realized on a significantly smaller area, a revised floor plan for the upper floor may be considered. We just want to avoid having a hallway on the upper floor without any natural light, as it is in the current unrenovated condition. Also, it should be possible to access the balcony without having to walk through a child’s or bedroom first. The alternative would probably be a long corridor with a balcony door in the southern outer wall, which in turn would limit the usable space for a fully functional room instead of a reading or play area.
ypg schrieb:
Both visually and practically: leave a wall section standing...
-> Leave the corner of the house/extension visible, keep about 1.50/2.00 meters (5/6.5 feet) clear, then a wall section...
Room height: no problem, check the forum posts from the last 5 weeks, same topic I would leave the corner between the living room and dining area as it is. It looks nice.
However, I would leave a wall section standing roughly in the middle. As a boundary, to emphasize the open space, as an accent, or/and as a visual screen...
Sorry,
That was a bit awkwardly written because I was initially referring to a short wall section by the sofa...
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