ᐅ Is a Structural Engineer Required for Facade Demolition?
Created on: 5 May 2009 11:24
A
ABG-GeschaedigtA
ABG-Geschaedigt5 May 2009 11:24Hello,
together with other neighbors, we are having problems with the facade, which is built using a timber frame construction method.
The exterior facade (outer plaster and particle board) needs to be removed; the wooden framework and inner particle board will remain in place.
Now, the construction company contracted to carry out the work insists that a structural engineer must calculate whether the facade can be removed from the three adjoining houses. According to building regulations in Hesse, this would be required, but not, for example, in Bavaria.
Is that actually the case?
For other renovated houses of the same type, this calculation was not carried out.
Especially since only one side is renovated at a time.
And shouldn’t this calculation have been done in advance based on the building plans? The construction company claims it is not clear which particle boards were used.
It just seems to us that the construction company failed to check this in advance or unnecessarily ordered the structural engineer, whose costs we ultimately have to cover. The construction has now been on hold for 6 working days because of this “calculation.”
Thank you,
An ABG-Geschaedigt
together with other neighbors, we are having problems with the facade, which is built using a timber frame construction method.
The exterior facade (outer plaster and particle board) needs to be removed; the wooden framework and inner particle board will remain in place.
Now, the construction company contracted to carry out the work insists that a structural engineer must calculate whether the facade can be removed from the three adjoining houses. According to building regulations in Hesse, this would be required, but not, for example, in Bavaria.
Is that actually the case?
For other renovated houses of the same type, this calculation was not carried out.
Especially since only one side is renovated at a time.
And shouldn’t this calculation have been done in advance based on the building plans? The construction company claims it is not clear which particle boards were used.
It just seems to us that the construction company failed to check this in advance or unnecessarily ordered the structural engineer, whose costs we ultimately have to cover. The construction has now been on hold for 6 working days because of this “calculation.”
Thank you,
An ABG-Geschaedigt
Hello ABG-Geschädigter,
If I understand correctly, these are three attached houses (terraced houses) built using a timber frame construction method. This is likely the type commonly referred to here in Lower Saxony as timber framing.
As the builders, did you receive any structural calculations for your houses? I assume you have also paid for these.
First of all, it should be noted that each of these terraced houses must be structurally braced on its own (even without the neighboring houses).
Basically, from a structural perspective, the sheathing serves to brace the building spatially. If there is a corresponding structural verification in the structural calculations, it will show which wall elements are responsible for the bracing and which can possibly be opened.
However, it is unlikely that the sheathing on an external wall can be completely removed without additional measures. Such measures usually must be verified structurally to ensure the building’s stability is not compromised.
Typically, OSB panels (a type of particle board) are used for the sheathing in timber frame construction. Unfortunately, I cannot provide a remote diagnosis.
If you have any further questions, I am happy to assist.
Kind regards,
Danton
Engineering and Planning Office
Dipl.-Ing. Thomas Brandenburg
Consulting Engineer and Building Expert
Insurance Specialist (Construction Contract)
If I understand correctly, these are three attached houses (terraced houses) built using a timber frame construction method. This is likely the type commonly referred to here in Lower Saxony as timber framing.
As the builders, did you receive any structural calculations for your houses? I assume you have also paid for these.
First of all, it should be noted that each of these terraced houses must be structurally braced on its own (even without the neighboring houses).
Basically, from a structural perspective, the sheathing serves to brace the building spatially. If there is a corresponding structural verification in the structural calculations, it will show which wall elements are responsible for the bracing and which can possibly be opened.
However, it is unlikely that the sheathing on an external wall can be completely removed without additional measures. Such measures usually must be verified structurally to ensure the building’s stability is not compromised.
Typically, OSB panels (a type of particle board) are used for the sheathing in timber frame construction. Unfortunately, I cannot provide a remote diagnosis.
If you have any further questions, I am happy to assist.
Kind regards,
Danton
Engineering and Planning Office
Dipl.-Ing. Thomas Brandenburg
Consulting Engineer and Building Expert
Insurance Specialist (Construction Contract)
A
ABG-Geschaedigt5 May 2009 19:00Hello,
the purchase was made several years ago, and currently I cannot find any documents related to structural calculations.
Is it really true that in Hesse a structural engineer’s report is required for this type of construction, but not in Bavaria?
By the way, "our" houses have even been featured on TV, all due to the same construction defects. The “friendly” ABG-Frankfurt...
the purchase was made several years ago, and currently I cannot find any documents related to structural calculations.
Is it really true that in Hesse a structural engineer’s report is required for this type of construction, but not in Bavaria?
By the way, "our" houses have even been featured on TV, all due to the same construction defects. The “friendly” ABG-Frankfurt...
Hello ABG-Geschädigter, by the way, it would be nice to know your name, but I understand if you want to remain anonymous.
Those are quite serious conditions in the northern part of Frankfurt; I briefly watched two of the videos. I hadn’t heard of this case before.
From your first report, I mistakenly understood that you had the houses built yourselves at the time. Unfortunately, it is often the case that not all documents related to a building are handed over to the buyer when purchasing a house. Therefore, it is quite possible that you did not receive a structural engineering report.
From my professional experience, it is standard practice that any modification affecting the structural system of a building requires an appropriate structural safety certificate. I am not familiar with the state building codes of Hesse and Bavaria in detail, but this is surely no different in Bavaria than in Hesse. This is likely not about a structural expert report but rather a structural calculation or certification for the planned construction phase, namely the renovation of the facade. Such a renovation measure does not necessarily require a building permit/planning permission and therefore does not always have to be submitted to the responsible building authority. The structural calculation in such a case serves as proof of safety during the construction phase, as the contractor must also assume liability for this. Should a collapse occur during the renovation work without this structural proof, the contractor would be acting with gross negligence and would be liable for the resulting damage.
The two TV broadcasts (Hessen 3 and RTL) showed much more severe construction defects than just the mentioned particle boards. The entire timber frame structure will certainly need to be renewed (meaning ultimately the complete exterior wall), as the timber stud construction is infected with hazardous fungi and has already decayed in large areas. Are the defects in your house less severe? How is the condition of the interior side of the external walls and the interior walls?
With a timber frame construction, as with other wooden structures, it is crucial from the outset to ensure that no moisture can penetrate the structure, neither from outside nor inside. Unfortunately, there is a significant potential risk here—leaks in the facade or damaged vapor barrier membranes on the interior side are just two examples.
From whom did you originally purchase the house? If you are very lucky, the previous owner may have kept some documents. Another option would be to inquire at the responsible building authority. However, keep in mind that there could be some connection to the city-owned ABG.
How about organizing a delegation of all affected parties (collecting signatures) to politely approach the Lord Mayor of Frankfurt? Sometimes political channels can work wonders. After all, as a city-owned developer, ABG falls within his jurisdiction.
If it ever comes to the point where ABG has to cover the damages, they will also be obliged to bear the costs for the required structural calculations.
I hope this has helped a little.
Kind regards
Danton
Engineering and Planning Office
Dipl.-Ing. Thomas Brandenburg
Consulting Engineer and Building Expert
Insurance Specialist (Construction Contract)
Those are quite serious conditions in the northern part of Frankfurt; I briefly watched two of the videos. I hadn’t heard of this case before.
From your first report, I mistakenly understood that you had the houses built yourselves at the time. Unfortunately, it is often the case that not all documents related to a building are handed over to the buyer when purchasing a house. Therefore, it is quite possible that you did not receive a structural engineering report.
From my professional experience, it is standard practice that any modification affecting the structural system of a building requires an appropriate structural safety certificate. I am not familiar with the state building codes of Hesse and Bavaria in detail, but this is surely no different in Bavaria than in Hesse. This is likely not about a structural expert report but rather a structural calculation or certification for the planned construction phase, namely the renovation of the facade. Such a renovation measure does not necessarily require a building permit/planning permission and therefore does not always have to be submitted to the responsible building authority. The structural calculation in such a case serves as proof of safety during the construction phase, as the contractor must also assume liability for this. Should a collapse occur during the renovation work without this structural proof, the contractor would be acting with gross negligence and would be liable for the resulting damage.
The two TV broadcasts (Hessen 3 and RTL) showed much more severe construction defects than just the mentioned particle boards. The entire timber frame structure will certainly need to be renewed (meaning ultimately the complete exterior wall), as the timber stud construction is infected with hazardous fungi and has already decayed in large areas. Are the defects in your house less severe? How is the condition of the interior side of the external walls and the interior walls?
With a timber frame construction, as with other wooden structures, it is crucial from the outset to ensure that no moisture can penetrate the structure, neither from outside nor inside. Unfortunately, there is a significant potential risk here—leaks in the facade or damaged vapor barrier membranes on the interior side are just two examples.
From whom did you originally purchase the house? If you are very lucky, the previous owner may have kept some documents. Another option would be to inquire at the responsible building authority. However, keep in mind that there could be some connection to the city-owned ABG.
How about organizing a delegation of all affected parties (collecting signatures) to politely approach the Lord Mayor of Frankfurt? Sometimes political channels can work wonders. After all, as a city-owned developer, ABG falls within his jurisdiction.
If it ever comes to the point where ABG has to cover the damages, they will also be obliged to bear the costs for the required structural calculations.
I hope this has helped a little.
Kind regards
Danton
Engineering and Planning Office
Dipl.-Ing. Thomas Brandenburg
Consulting Engineer and Building Expert
Insurance Specialist (Construction Contract)
Hello ABG-Affected,
yes, this is certainly a difficult situation.
Since Mayor Petra Roth sits on the supervisory board of ABG, she does have some influence over the company’s actions.
She is most likely not there alone but alongside others, probably including members from the works council as well as the union, but the role of the supervisory board members is supposed to be to oversee the company.
Considering upcoming election results, she, along with the other board members, should use their influence within the company to support those affected. But perhaps they are already doing so to the best of their ability—who knows.
On the other hand, she presumably also has to represent the (financial) interests of the city of Frankfurt, which likely holds a stake in the company.
Kind regards,
Danton
yes, this is certainly a difficult situation.
Since Mayor Petra Roth sits on the supervisory board of ABG, she does have some influence over the company’s actions.
She is most likely not there alone but alongside others, probably including members from the works council as well as the union, but the role of the supervisory board members is supposed to be to oversee the company.
Considering upcoming election results, she, along with the other board members, should use their influence within the company to support those affected. But perhaps they are already doing so to the best of their ability—who knows.
On the other hand, she presumably also has to represent the (financial) interests of the city of Frankfurt, which likely holds a stake in the company.
Kind regards,
Danton
A
ABG-Geschaedigt7 May 2009 11:43Danton schrieb:
....
On the other hand, she probably also has to represent the (financial) interests of the city of Frankfurt, which is likely invested in that company.
Best regards,
Danton I also thought Ms. Roth would use her influence and that the construction company Frankfurt Holding responsible for the project would admit their obvious and serious mistakes.
BUT NOTHING!
Everything is denied, and in the newspaper, the managing director Mr. Junker writes that the homeowners themselves caused the water damage (even at a height of 6m (20 feet)) by installing outdoor lights...
Here is a recent photo of the damage; the homeowner did not expect it to be this bad:
The existing mold can spread almost unhindered into the interiors due to the leaking vapor barrier. And don’t forget, small children also live in the 32 affected houses...
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