ᐅ Floor Plan Feedback for Single-Family Home for 4-5 People, 200 sqm on a 500 sqm Plot in Baden-Württemberg

KJaneway schrieb:

850,000€ is kind of an emotional limit for us

That’s a nice term, suggesting a certain practical flexibility.

ypg schrieb:

Walk-in closet opening from the hallway.

If a walk-in closet, then exactly like that.

KJaneway schrieb:

We’re still considering whether we really want the pantry or if we’d rather invest that space in the kitchen.

The pantry has become popular again. I would prefer the larger kitchen. The building’s appearance would also benefit if the kitchen were a bit bigger and there was a balcony above it. However, that would not fit the budget.

KJaneway schrieb:
To be honest, we have only discussed the interior layout with the planner so far and have somewhat neglected the exterior views.

Planning a house from the inside out is one of several good approaches. The room layout, especially on the first floor, is very pragmatically solved. The planner placed the windows symmetrically on the outside. Apart from your preference not to have floor-to-ceiling windows, it’s worth considering whether the windows could be wider and whether, from an interior perspective, the symmetry is more helpful or more limiting.

KJaneway schrieb:

I find your other comments about the house’s appearance interesting. Unfortunately, I don’t have a very strong sense of aesthetics. Do you have any ideas on how it could be done better or differently?

Assuming the building height is more or less fixed by the neighboring buildings and that a nearly square plot of "only" 500 sqm (about 5,380 sq ft) leaves little room for a building in proportions that would look less narrow and tall, I agree with you that the appearance can still be significantly influenced by the façade design. Dividing the space into essentially four floors means that neither inside nor outside will give a feeling of spaciousness in such a large house. For me, as a future owner, that would be a deal-breaker. That does not mean the design is bad or that building the house this way is wrong.

This shows how important it is to think intensively from the very beginning about how you want to live. Which lifestyle the house should support just as much as what functions it should have.
Simple questions like:
“What makes a room a place where I feel comfortable?”
“What really makes a day in my own home pleasant, and what causes a bad day?”
“What role do light and the connection between inside and outside play for me in different seasons?”
“How do I want my children to develop during the time they live with me in the house?”
“What is our family life like during the week, on weekends, during holidays, on special occasions… and what makes life enjoyable and pleasant at those times?”
“What colors and shapes do I particularly like, and which do I dislike?”
We took about 8 months for this process. Only then did we have the briefing with the architect and received the first draft, which fit 95% from the start. Still, we took several months to let the design settle; the changes were not big but ultimately important. We had the plot already. It was this process that led us to build a house that fits our life very, very well. Much is non-standard. So what. If your house fits you as it is drawn, you don’t need to care what others think. What really matters is that it suits you and your family.

ypg schrieb:

Do you have to know them? Who are they supposed to be? Bloggers? Vloggers? They haven’t exactly reinvented the wheel and are often wrong. Recently, we didn’t see any impressive work from a supposedly well-known architect on YouTube here.

Several not so impressive ones. Andreas Zink is someone you should know if you’re looking for a prefab house consultant, especially in Lower Bavaria (and if you understand Bavarian dialect fluently). Together mainly with colleagues Beuler and Freyermuth, he is among those I would roughly consider recommended "competitors" (apart from practically ruling out the Steiner ones with them). But even construction-focused consultants are better than nothing if they are at least vendor-neutral.

KJaneway schrieb:

He actually offers all service phases. I have already been inside houses where he was the construction manager.

There are also good pure construction managers. But in my opinion, the best is when a planner knows both halves of the process from regular practice (and not least continuously reviews their cost estimates).

KJaneway schrieb:

What do you mean by that?

I mean the case that mainly motivated me to write the basement rule: someone absolutely wanting to build without a basement, even though their sloped plot clearly speaks against a slab-on-grade foundation. Shockingly many people look up the prices of "L-shaped blocks" in the home improvement store’s newspaper insert and dream of unrealistic cost differences compared to a basement. Then they put on one side of their oversimplified calculation, for example, $80,000 for a basement, and on the other side just a few bundles of L-shaped blocks. Now they have instead a rule of thumb that has proven reliable for decades (I have four decades of construction planning experience).

wiltshire schrieb:

We took our time for this process—about eight months comfortably. Only then did the briefing with the architect happen, followed by the first draft, which was 95% right from the start. Still, we took several months to let the design settle; the changes were not big but ultimately important. We already had the plot. It was this process that led to building a house that fits our life very, very well. Much of it is non-standard. So what. If your house fits you as drawn, you don’t have to care how others see it. The only thing that really matters is that it fits you and your family.

On a smaller scale, an ideal six-week resting period for dough is also a highly effective measure—more effective as a break than some continuous wandering around.

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Here I am again,
I measured the ground floor to see how the utility room could be accommodated efficiently. In doing so, I realized that the indicated platform staircase does not have the roughly required length of 3 meters (10 feet).

Have the architect check this again. As a starting point, here is my unfinished rough draft for the idea of placing the balcony on an extension.
@nordanney is right when he says that an additional 10 square meters (or even 20 square meters) won’t really be noticeable in the garden.

Hello, I want to understand a few things better, so here goes:

KJaneway schrieb:

KFW40 house, about 150-170 sqm (was the initial wish, although my wife wanted it a bit bigger). That's how it turned out.

What exactly did she want bigger and why? So far, it's just a plan…

KJaneway schrieb:

Living room about 35 sqm was the specification.

…from whom and why?

KJaneway schrieb:

Development plan from the 1930s. Still valid but there have already been many approved exceptions in the neighborhood.

In that case, an experienced architect should first explore what is possible there and clarify such things in advance, especially.

KJaneway schrieb:

that we probably have to at least put the attic in.

KJaneway schrieb:

…possibly place a washer/dryer stack if going up and down becomes too annoying.

What’s that about?

KJaneway schrieb:

Balcony, roof terrace
Balcony desired. Initially for the cats. Later maybe also for the children when they want to hang out with friends.

What about the countless cats that don’t have a balcony costing €30,000? Boys or teenagers sitting on balconies—I rarely see that; I tend to see (or not see) them in dark, enclosed rooms.

KJaneway schrieb:

Preference is for a wooden carport for 2 cars with a shed behind it. The planner thinks a prefabricated garage (6x9 m) is the cheaper solution due to its all-in-one nature.

I would disagree, as I have exactly such a carport with an extension. Also, I would not like the prefabricated solution at all.

KJaneway schrieb:

Who designed the plans:
Independent building planner (who also manages construction) working together with a freelance architect.

Why doesn’t the architect handle the planning alone? Do you have references or examples of completed houses?

KJaneway schrieb:

Large master bathroom with a bathtub for two people

…but I don’t see that planned anywhere so far.

KJaneway schrieb:

Since we have a child with behavioral challenges, we would like to close off the stairs.

I would definitely include this circumstance, whatever its impact will be, in the planning and carefully consider the special needs of the growing child in both directions. Simply “close the stairs” seems too simplistic for the planning at this stage.

KJaneway schrieb:

Some wishes he has already talked us out of during the planning phase because they were too expensive, unfeasible, or impractical.

Could you share what these “talked-out wishes” were?

derdietmar schrieb:

Honestly, I find the house rather dull and not very appealing considering the expected costs. The proportions and external appearance are dreadful.

I fully agree with this opinion, with an exclamation mark added. My basic feeling when looking at the drawings is that way for me as well. I want inspiring designs, ideas, and concepts from which a feasible but still attractive final product can emerge. To me, it looks like an older suburban house with a covered balcony tacked on at some point.

KJaneway schrieb:

Unfortunately, I don’t have a very good sense of aesthetics.

That is not a problem in itself, and taste or aesthetics can vary greatly. However, for such an expensive “life project,” I would not accept that excuse. Engage with it more, look at examples, ask for references, drive around and find out what style of house or interior you might like. It can still turn out differently in the end, but simply saying “I don’t have a sense of aesthetics” seems too shallow.

After I tell the architect what is important and desirable in our lives, I expect them first to explore the possible parameters rather than guessing what the building authorities might think. Then I would expect not only a functional, fresh floor plan but also at least a rough visualisation of the exterior, including the site conditions. I don’t really see that here, at least not in a form that would bring a smile to my face as a sign of excitement about the planned house.

I would seriously reconsider whom I would entrust with the execution of my house build. As I have already said, the author of the current drawings would definitely not be my choice, and not because I prefer more modern-looking buildings. I also know very elegant houses with classical and/or older styles, but that is not what I see here either.

Arauki11 schrieb:

wattndattn?

A washer-dryer stack or laundry tower is something like this

wiltshire schrieb:

That’s a nice term, suggesting a certain factual flexibility.

Exactly. The factual flexibility is the buffer that will most likely prevent this project from causing us any serious financial problems.

wiltshire schrieb:

The pantry has become a modern trend again. I would prefer the larger kitchen. The appearance of the building would also benefit if the kitchen were a bit bigger and a balcony created above it. However, that wouldn’t fit the budget.

Yes, the extension with a balcony on top is something I keep thinking about. The balcony could either run along the entire length of the house or be just above this extension. So far, it also serves as shading for the terrace, but that could possibly be solved with a sun sail and/or an awning. I can also easily imagine a large kitchen without a pantry. Nowadays, you can create smart storage solutions in tall cabinets. The larger kitchen appliances that are only used a few times a year don’t need to be kept close to the kitchen.

wiltshire schrieb:

The division of space across almost four floors means that neither inside nor outside will create a sense of spaciousness in this big house. For me as a builder, that would be a dealbreaker.

Currently, we live in a rented terraced house of 170sqm (1,830 sq ft). The space is spread over 3 full floors, so roughly 55sqm (590 sq ft) per floor:
Ground floor: living room 40sqm (430 sq ft), storage: 2sqm (20 sq ft), kitchen: 9sqm (95 sq ft), hallway: 3sqm (30 sq ft), guest WC: 2sqm (20 sq ft)
Upper floor: master bedroom approx. 22sqm (240 sq ft), bathroom approx. 12sqm (130 sq ft), child 1 + child 2: each 11sqm (120 sq ft)
Attic floor: studio approx. 40sqm (430 sq ft) + balcony + heating room (2sqm (20 sq ft)) + storage room (2sqm (20 sq ft))
It’s a very tall and narrow house. At least we know what we’re getting into.

wiltshire schrieb:

"What defines a space where I feel comfortable?"
"What really makes a day in my own home good, and what makes it bad?"
"What role do light and the connection between indoors and outdoors play for me in different seasons?"
"How do I want my children to develop while living with me in the house?"
"What is our family life like during the week, weekends, holidays, special occasions... and what makes life pleasant and enjoyable during those times?"
"What colors and shapes do I particularly like, and which do I dislike?"

We spent about 8 months on this process. Only then did we brief the architect, and then received the first draft, which was immediately about 95% right. Still, we took several months to let the design sink in; the changes were not major but ultimately important. We already had the plot. It was this process that led us to build a house that fits our life very, very well. Many things are non-standard. So what. If your house fits your needs as drawn, you don’t have to care how others see it. The important thing is that it fits you and your family.

Important questions! We have been pondering for several years how our house should look and what we expect from it. For such a large project, which is my first, I also feel somewhat uncertain. I don’t want to overlook anything and can’t confidently judge if a floor plan is perfect or just 80% suitable for our needs. Generally, a large open house and the special needs of our child unfortunately exclude each other. Open spaces always encourage him to throw things around. For that reason, many doors are mainly for protection—for the house, for us, and for the child. Everyone needs places to retreat. Sometimes life must be separated between rooms. I’d rather have the computer in a separate room than have it destroyed. Broadly, this applies to the TV as well (we’ve had to replace two TVs in the past two years because our 4-year-old broke them). Still, this is something we like to keep in the living room, as we enjoy cuddling together on the sofa watching TV.
A large and flexible outdoor area is also very important to us. Hence the wish to build as tall and as compact as possible.
Last week, I visited a friend with a 2-year-old. I admired how she could simply have a shelf with toys in the room. That would not work with us. Our older child would systematically destroy such a system. Hence the need for storage space. If something is to last, it must be put away—far away.
This is also a reason for a kitchen with a pantry where things can be locked away. Otherwise, kitchen cabinets and the fridge must be lockable. Ideally, all cabinets should lockable. The same applies to the house and garden. Otherwise, something like a runaway child incident that made the news last year with a poor boy from northern Germany could happen to us.
It might also be worth considering a windbreak area at the entrance as a kind of airlock, not just for dirt.

11ant schrieb:

There are good pure site managers as well. But in my opinion, it’s best if the planner has regular practical experience in both phases (and regularly updates their cost estimates).

One reason I trust the current planner is that I know houses he has built, and right now he’s building two houses as site manager in the same town together with a developer. That’s also why I expected realistic assessments here.

ypg schrieb:

@nordanney is right when he says that 10sqm (100 sq ft) more or less (or even 20sqm (215 sq ft)) won’t make a difference in the garden.

We discussed again over the weekend: a basement is definitely a requirement. Whether new or existing, we still have to examine. It would be nice to simply build on top of the existing basement. We need to see if two full floors are then possible. Above all, we have to have one or two experts inspect the basement first. We don’t want storage spaces scattered everywhere. Yes, it might become a flea market asylum. But in our current life situation, we won’t be able to address any collector issues.

ypg schrieb:

Have the architect check that again. As a start, here’s my rough unfinished draft for the idea of placing the balcony on an extension.

We will do that. The last thing I want is a custom size with smaller steps or steeper stairs.

Arauki11 schrieb:

What exactly did she want to make bigger and why? So far it’s only a plan....

As I said, we currently have 170sqm (1,830 sq ft) in a terraced house. We live on the ground and upper floors. The attic is basically storage, computer room, and we even have a freezer there because there’s no space below. It annoys us to have to store files/books/food on the upper floor. So we felt that 170sqm is actually too small. I think if you sorted the 170sqm well, we could manage. But since we expect family growth, at least temporarily, in the form of an Au Pair for at least 3 years, we prefer an extra room.

Arauki11 schrieb:

What about the countless cats that don’t have balconies for €30,000? I never see boys or teenagers sitting on balconies; I see them (or don’t) in dark, secluded rooms.

They live just as well! We could equally fence off a small area in the garden. It’s just a matter of taste.

Arauki11 schrieb:

I disagree because I have exactly such a carport with an extension. Also, I wouldn’t like a prefabricated solution at all.

Good to know. I strongly prefer this solution. I cannot yet imagine parking a bulky box in the garden.

Arauki11 schrieb:

Why doesn’t the architect handle the planning alone? Have you seen references or completed houses?

If I understand correctly, he only needs the architect for the signature? I’m not sure he is authorized for official building submissions. We have never met the architect behind this. We met him through a developer for whom he also does planning and site management. We didn’t get along with the developer, but contact with the planner seemed suitable.

Arauki11 schrieb:

...but I don’t see these anywhere planned so far.

Well, there’s already a large bathtub drawn in the attic bathroom. There might still be room for a bigger one. I could also imagine modifying the upper-floor bathroom by arranging it in a T or U shape (preferably U) so the necessary fixtures—shower, toilet, sink—are along one wall. That should leave space for a large tub if desired. Besides, the wall where the bathtub stands could be shifted a bit under the sloping roof. Currently, it is planned at the 2m (6 ft 6 inch) line.

Arauki11 schrieb:

I would definitely include this factor in the planning and carefully consider the special needs of the growing child in both directions. I believe just “stairs closed off” is too limited an approach at this stage.

I outlined this above: open areas invite throwing (so there are none). A large garden (= lawn) for playing with some play equipment. Retreat spaces for everyone are important. Lockable storage areas. Lockable garden fencing and house.

Arauki11 schrieb:

Can you list the wishes that were talked you out of?

Among others, the carport in favor of the prefabricated garage.
A flatter roof (about 15 to 20° pitch). Our original wish was to limit ourselves to two full floors plus a basement and leave the attic unused. This fits well with a flatter roof.
The dormer window on the now steep roof might be left out initially until there is a cost calculation and we can decide if we want the dormer after all. It would mainly be an external aesthetic element. I can’t imagine it adding much value to the dressing room.
Building the house 80cm (31 inches) higher (so the garden doesn’t have to be completely excavated and shaped): then two full floors would no longer be enough in height because of the steep roof. We’ll need to clarify this with the building authority and have an architect/structural engineer inspect the basement.
Keeping the old basement is a nightmare to insulate and seal properly. It might be better to just dig a new one. That’s at least what I understood.

Arauki11 schrieb:

For such an expensive “life project,” I wouldn’t accept such a justification. Spend more time on it, look at things, ask for references, drive around, and find out what style of house—and especially interior—you like.

One of our bigger problems is time. Our children demand maximum attention whenever they’re not in daycare. The rest of the time is either work or sleep. One of my bigger concerns is: where to find the time for this house project? I’d most like to outsource the whole thing. We probably wouldn’t even have the chance to spend 2 or 3 days selecting finishes if we signed with a prefab house manufacturer. Our child would have destroyed the selection center in less than 5 hours. Childcare is impossible for us right now. A trip to a prefab house center would be possible but requires a day off or having to bring the children along. Then one person spends the whole time with childcare and barely sees the houses. All in all, this is not an optimal situation for a house build, which takes up a lot of time.

Arauki11 schrieb:

As already stated, the person responsible for the drawings so far would not be my choice—not because I prefer more modern buildings. I know very smart houses in classic or older styles, but I don’t see that here.

Why not? Yes, the sketches may be questionable. But most of the ideas in these sketches were inspired by us. Basement makes no sense? We asked for it. House too cubic? Initially, he planned two levels with an unused attic. We then asked to use the attic and reduce the footprint. So I would put the blame for the current design more on us than on the planner. Maybe another planner would have talked us out of some ideas or steered us more skillfully to a good solution, regardless of whether they have a degree or not. But I would see the main responsibility for the planning so far less with the planner and more with us.