ᐅ Electrical installation too expensive – oversized or just overpriced?
Created on: 5 Oct 2015 14:57
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derelvis
Hello everyone,
We received the quotation for the electrical installation, and I had to sit down first.
So far, everything has roughly matched the values found online (excavation, surveying, structural engineering, architect fees, etc.), but the electrical installation is about twice as expensive as what is generally indicated on the internet: €23,000, while we had planned for €10,000–12,000.
On closer inspection, we noticed that the quotation seems oversized and appears to cover all possible contingencies. The final billing is based on actual usage, so I would like to get your opinion on how over-dimensioned it really is. The prices include installation.
A few items can be deducted or reduced considerably. (For example, I do not need 17 temperature controllers with displays at €100 each), which would save about €1,000 right away. Also, a network cabinet with a patch panel listed at €400 can be found for about half that price. Having 110 sockets plus 10 Schuko sockets also seems excessive to me.
There are also elements included that I have not seen elsewhere: all installations (kitchen, heating, garage), roller shutter control and connection, ventilation installation, mailbox with intercom system. Still, I cannot get the total below €15,000, let alone €10,000.
Here are my top 10 items – is this very oversized? Or am I unlikely to save much? Especially the cable lengths are about double what I see online.
Room temperature controller €104.12, 17 pcs, €1,770.04
Sheathed cable 5*1.5 mm², €1.83 per meter, 700 m, €1,281.00
Socket outlet Jung AS520, €9.25, 110 pcs, €1,017.50
Meter cabinet €856.34, 1 pc, €856.34
Sheathed cable 3*1.5 mm², €1.41 per meter, 600 m, €846.00
Mailbox system with intercom €568.49, 1 pc, €568.49
Electronic transformer €29.43, 14 pcs, €412.02
Silicone protective cap €26.10, 14 pcs, €365.40
FR bathroom light €58.38, 6 pcs, €350.28
Residual current circuit breaker €68.26, 5 pcs, €341.30
Roller shutter: programming €338.71, 1 pc, €338.71
We received the quotation for the electrical installation, and I had to sit down first.
So far, everything has roughly matched the values found online (excavation, surveying, structural engineering, architect fees, etc.), but the electrical installation is about twice as expensive as what is generally indicated on the internet: €23,000, while we had planned for €10,000–12,000.
On closer inspection, we noticed that the quotation seems oversized and appears to cover all possible contingencies. The final billing is based on actual usage, so I would like to get your opinion on how over-dimensioned it really is. The prices include installation.
A few items can be deducted or reduced considerably. (For example, I do not need 17 temperature controllers with displays at €100 each), which would save about €1,000 right away. Also, a network cabinet with a patch panel listed at €400 can be found for about half that price. Having 110 sockets plus 10 Schuko sockets also seems excessive to me.
There are also elements included that I have not seen elsewhere: all installations (kitchen, heating, garage), roller shutter control and connection, ventilation installation, mailbox with intercom system. Still, I cannot get the total below €15,000, let alone €10,000.
Here are my top 10 items – is this very oversized? Or am I unlikely to save much? Especially the cable lengths are about double what I see online.
Room temperature controller €104.12, 17 pcs, €1,770.04
Sheathed cable 5*1.5 mm², €1.83 per meter, 700 m, €1,281.00
Socket outlet Jung AS520, €9.25, 110 pcs, €1,017.50
Meter cabinet €856.34, 1 pc, €856.34
Sheathed cable 3*1.5 mm², €1.41 per meter, 600 m, €846.00
Mailbox system with intercom €568.49, 1 pc, €568.49
Electronic transformer €29.43, 14 pcs, €412.02
Silicone protective cap €26.10, 14 pcs, €365.40
FR bathroom light €58.38, 6 pcs, €350.28
Residual current circuit breaker €68.26, 5 pcs, €341.30
Roller shutter: programming €338.71, 1 pc, €338.71
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Peanuts7425 Jan 2016 09:12Mycraft schrieb:
The fact that most electricians install a 16A circuit breaker regardless of what will be connected later doesn’t mean that this is always correct, especially in a single-family house... usually, the response is "we’ve always done it this way"... that’s what I meant from a safety perspective...
There are other factors as well, such as the type of cable installation, cable length, etc.
The 3600-watt rating doesn’t always apply... sometimes it’s limited to 3000 watts or even less...
If the electrical circuits are properly distributed, they can be connected to a single phase without any problem.Normally, the electrician should also measure resistance at the end and test whether the circuit breakers and RCDs (residual current devices) trip as intended. From my experience, RCDs tend to be very sensitive. Once, I accidentally connected a socket while it was live and touched only the neutral or protective earth conductor, and the RCD tripped immediately...
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daniels8725 Jan 2016 09:16Peanuts74 schrieb:
An electrician should normally also measure resistances at the end and check if the circuit breakers / RCDs trip. In my experience, RCDs are very sensitive. Once, I connected a socket while it was live and only touched the neutral or protective earth, and the RCD tripped immediately...However, the RCD only helps with leakage currents. Even small potential differences are enough to cause it to trip when connecting or disconnecting. If a contact is damaged or burnt, the RCD usually does not react much.
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Sebastian7925 Jan 2016 09:19Peanuts74 schrieb:
I also don’t understand why some still install 3 x 1.5 mm² (5 x 1/16 inch²) cables for sockets; for me, sockets require 3 x 2.5 mm² (10 x 1/16 inch²), PERIODAnd why? That’s nonsense... even my CEE16A uses 5 x 1.5 mm² (5 x 1/16 inch²) because that is completely sufficient. Some installations are seriously undersized – almost everyone does it (which doesn’t mean it is correct, though).
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Peanuts7425 Jan 2016 09:41As you said, it is doable. However, depending on the cable length and the number of connections (contact resistances), it is quite easy to no longer meet the required values with 1.5mm² (1.65 sq inch).
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Sebastian7925 Jan 2016 09:43That is a different matter and must of course be taken into account – but you have generalized it quite a bit. Usually, 1.5 (1.5 inches) are more than sufficient, since we are still talking about a single-family house.
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Peanuts7425 Jan 2016 09:52I don’t know the exact values that need to be met; my certified electrician is responsible for that, as well as for the inspection. However, he mentioned that with the longest cables and if you have 7–8 sockets or connections, it can get quite tight. Especially when the contact springs are still new, the values can be reached, but after 5 years there can suddenly be higher resistance.
Since the cable isn’t very expensive when ordered at a reasonable price, it’s better to use a slightly thicker one rather than too thin and possibly test it during measurement. Pulling in a new cable later is much more difficult, even if you have already installed conduit all the way to the outlets.
Since the cable isn’t very expensive when ordered at a reasonable price, it’s better to use a slightly thicker one rather than too thin and possibly test it during measurement. Pulling in a new cable later is much more difficult, even if you have already installed conduit all the way to the outlets.
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