ᐅ Building without antenna and satellite or coaxial cables without conduit?
Created on: 6 Jun 2020 12:18
K
kati1337
Hello,
we received the additional electrical work quote today (ouch), and the contractor is basically getting very little because we decided to remove both the antenna and satellite connections.
Now I’m wondering if we are really that far off base or if I missed something. The antenna is that old-fashioned cable through which you could only receive channels like ARD, ZDF, and some regional channels back in the ’90s, right? Are there more channels available via antenna now? Is it even necessary? Does everyone just “have one”?
We currently have a satellite dish on the roof, but I believe the last time we actually used it was... I don’t know, 8 years ago?
So we were thinking about not installing a satellite connection at all. We simply don’t watch TV via satellite. I hate commercials, and when we do watch anything, it’s through streaming services. Plus, in our free time, we mostly do other things than watch TV anyway.
Are there any compelling reasons why we should still have satellite or antenna connections installed that I might be overlooking?
Topic 2: The electrical quote states that the CAT cables will be installed without conduits. I would prefer them to be installed with conduits so they can be replaced if needed in the future. Would you go for that? Or is it unnecessary?
we received the additional electrical work quote today (ouch), and the contractor is basically getting very little because we decided to remove both the antenna and satellite connections.
Now I’m wondering if we are really that far off base or if I missed something. The antenna is that old-fashioned cable through which you could only receive channels like ARD, ZDF, and some regional channels back in the ’90s, right? Are there more channels available via antenna now? Is it even necessary? Does everyone just “have one”?
We currently have a satellite dish on the roof, but I believe the last time we actually used it was... I don’t know, 8 years ago?
So we were thinking about not installing a satellite connection at all. We simply don’t watch TV via satellite. I hate commercials, and when we do watch anything, it’s through streaming services. Plus, in our free time, we mostly do other things than watch TV anyway.
Are there any compelling reasons why we should still have satellite or antenna connections installed that I might be overlooking?
Topic 2: The electrical quote states that the CAT cables will be installed without conduits. I would prefer them to be installed with conduits so they can be replaced if needed in the future. Would you go for that? Or is it unnecessary?
You can easily do without satellite TV nowadays with services like Zattoo, etc. Make sure to include a CAT cable in the empty conduit. I believe that’s even required by standards. For me, the main concern is preventing damage rather than replaceability. Looking at the thin wires inside a CAT cable, it’s quite logical to protect them.
ivenh0 schrieb:
In times of services like Zattoo, you can easily do without satellite TV. Definitely install CAT cable inside an empty conduit. I believe this is even required by standards. For me, it’s mainly about preventing damage rather than ease of replacement. Considering how thin the individual wires in a CAT cable are, it makes sense to protect them.Do you have a reference to the standard? I’d like to challenge them with it.
Edit: Since you can’t share links, could you provide a term I can search for?
Warning: this is incomplete and potentially misleading information copied from other sources. However, it can serve as a general reference:
1. In DIN 18015-1, there is also a Section 6 "Communication Systems," which was specifically included due to the special requirements for communication cabling. In Section 6.1.1 "General," second paragraph, it states: "Cables and lines must be installed in a way that allows them to be replaced, for example within conduits or ducts, unless they are installed on the wall surface in special cases (see T-Com 731 TR 1)." This reflects the fact that communication cables often need to be replaced with higher-performance cables as technical requirements evolve.
This is not new; even during the era of Deutsche Bundespost (before 1990), telephone cables were installed either concealed in conduits or accessible, and thus replaceable at any time, based on their Technical Guidelines.
2. DIN EN 50174-2 (VDE 0800-174-2) states in Section 4.5.1 Requirements:
"The selected cable management system must allow installation and removal of the cable without risk of damage."
This means that direct installation of communication cables concealed within walls (under plaster) is not permitted.
3. Standards, including both DIN 18015-1 and DIN EN 50174-2 (VDE 0800-174-2), are initially "only" recommendations and must be explicitly agreed upon contractually by the involved parties. However, for standards developed by DIN or VDE, there is a legal presumption that they represent the “recognized rules of technology.” This means that any qualified expert, when preparing an expert report—even if no agreement exists between parties—will refer to the minimum requirements of these standards. Courts will do so as well.
1. In DIN 18015-1, there is also a Section 6 "Communication Systems," which was specifically included due to the special requirements for communication cabling. In Section 6.1.1 "General," second paragraph, it states: "Cables and lines must be installed in a way that allows them to be replaced, for example within conduits or ducts, unless they are installed on the wall surface in special cases (see T-Com 731 TR 1)." This reflects the fact that communication cables often need to be replaced with higher-performance cables as technical requirements evolve.
This is not new; even during the era of Deutsche Bundespost (before 1990), telephone cables were installed either concealed in conduits or accessible, and thus replaceable at any time, based on their Technical Guidelines.
2. DIN EN 50174-2 (VDE 0800-174-2) states in Section 4.5.1 Requirements:
"The selected cable management system must allow installation and removal of the cable without risk of damage."
This means that direct installation of communication cables concealed within walls (under plaster) is not permitted.
3. Standards, including both DIN 18015-1 and DIN EN 50174-2 (VDE 0800-174-2), are initially "only" recommendations and must be explicitly agreed upon contractually by the involved parties. However, for standards developed by DIN or VDE, there is a legal presumption that they represent the “recognized rules of technology.” This means that any qualified expert, when preparing an expert report—even if no agreement exists between parties—will refer to the minimum requirements of these standards. Courts will do so as well.
K
knalltüte6 Jun 2020 13:19I’m not sure who wrote this, but if “empty conduits” are filled with CAT or other cables, they are no longer empty. They then become “protective conduits.”
And this is what has already been said above and, in my opinion, shouldn’t be done any other way. You have to forget the idea of pulling cables out and replacing them with others later. This usually doesn’t (never!) work with more than one (tight) bend. CAT7 PIMF cable goes in—done.
P.S. Maybe include antenna cables after all? It probably costs around 1,000 (the minimum unit in construction) for the entire single-family house with dish and splitter.
And this is what has already been said above and, in my opinion, shouldn’t be done any other way. You have to forget the idea of pulling cables out and replacing them with others later. This usually doesn’t (never!) work with more than one (tight) bend. CAT7 PIMF cable goes in—done.
P.S. Maybe include antenna cables after all? It probably costs around 1,000 (the minimum unit in construction) for the entire single-family house with dish and splitter.
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