Hello everyone,
Our heating engineer said he would usually install a circulation pump, but it could also be omitted. Operating costs would be about 30–50 € per year, and he estimated that it would need to be replaced every 6 years.
Of course, we don’t want to wait 30 seconds for the first warm water. He also mentioned that he can reduce the pipe diameter to somewhat lower the wait time.
Does anyone have experience with these pumps – from what pipe length or distance would you recommend installing one?
Another topic was the ventilation of the utility room, bathroom, and kitchen – he said it might be possible to install an air admittance valve (also known as a "mushroom valve" or similar) to avoid venting through the roof. Does anyone know about this? Does it cause any odors? I find that hard to imagine.
Thanks and best regards.
Our heating engineer said he would usually install a circulation pump, but it could also be omitted. Operating costs would be about 30–50 € per year, and he estimated that it would need to be replaced every 6 years.
Of course, we don’t want to wait 30 seconds for the first warm water. He also mentioned that he can reduce the pipe diameter to somewhat lower the wait time.
Does anyone have experience with these pumps – from what pipe length or distance would you recommend installing one?
Another topic was the ventilation of the utility room, bathroom, and kitchen – he said it might be possible to install an air admittance valve (also known as a "mushroom valve" or similar) to avoid venting through the roof. Does anyone know about this? Does it cause any odors? I find that hard to imagine.
Thanks and best regards.
B
Bauexperte24 May 2015 10:57Hello,
I was hoping to get answers beyond individual perceptions of comfort; so I am not that far off after all.
Soon, I will take a stopwatch into the shower; I shouldn’t have to wait 30 seconds – at least not until it’s scalding hot AND then cold water.
Even with two children who are now grown up, I don’t understand that...?
It’s not quite like that; regardless of whether saving water makes sense or not.
A circulation pipe affects the calculation of heat loss in a newly constructed building. Installing such a pipe can reduce the targeted energy efficiency by a solid 10%.
I don’t want to accuse you of anything; I only want to understand.
Best regards, Bauexperte
I was hoping to get answers beyond individual perceptions of comfort; so I am not that far off after all.
Lexmaul79 schrieb:
I also dislike letting the shower run for 30 seconds or more before I can use it.
Soon, I will take a stopwatch into the shower; I shouldn’t have to wait 30 seconds – at least not until it’s scalding hot AND then cold water.
Lexmaul79 schrieb:
(with a small child, this is mandatory at first).
Even with two children who are now grown up, I don’t understand that...?
Lexmaul79 schrieb:
And every time I’m supposed to waste precious water that could be instantly warm with a circulation pump? The energy consumption is offset by a photovoltaic system – large, well-insulated storage heated during the day. Completely free...
It’s not quite like that; regardless of whether saving water makes sense or not.
A circulation pipe affects the calculation of heat loss in a newly constructed building. Installing such a pipe can reduce the targeted energy efficiency by a solid 10%.
Lexmaul79 schrieb:
As I said, tastes vary and nobody has to do it – but for us it’s a comfort feature we don’t want to miss.
I don’t want to accuse you of anything; I only want to understand.
Best regards, Bauexperte
S
Sebastian7924 May 2015 12:47Building expert, I don’t have to mix anything at all – so you don’t have a thermostat in the shower?
Nice that it works quickly for you – cheap pipe installation? This isn’t always possible everywhere, which is why circulation systems exist.
Why with small children? The baby bottles need to be rinsed thoroughly with hot water, otherwise residues don’t come off easily – since this is done frequently, long waiting times annoy me. Well, of course, it’s only a matter of time.
Nice that it works quickly for you – cheap pipe installation? This isn’t always possible everywhere, which is why circulation systems exist.
Why with small children? The baby bottles need to be rinsed thoroughly with hot water, otherwise residues don’t come off easily – since this is done frequently, long waiting times annoy me. Well, of course, it’s only a matter of time.
B
Bauexperte25 May 2015 08:50Good morning,
this took longer than expected...
No, thermostatic mixers always remind me of a swimming pool visit; I don’t like them.
I used to boil the bottles regularly; just rinsing under hot water seemed insufficient to me. When my granddaughter was born, they went into the dishwasher, and I only boiled the nipples separately. So, I don’t miss anything and still prepare hot water separately when I need it, rather than storing it in the pipe. But that may simply be a matter of habit.
this took longer than expected...
Lexmaul79 schrieb:
Bauexperte, I don’t have to mix anything – so you don’t have a thermostat in the shower?
No, thermostatic mixers always remind me of a swimming pool visit; I don’t like them.
Lexmaul79 schrieb:
Why with small children? Baby bottles need to be rinsed with very hot water; otherwise, residues don’t come off easily – since this is done often, long waiting times annoy me. Well, it’s only a matter of time, of course...
I used to boil the bottles regularly; just rinsing under hot water seemed insufficient to me. When my granddaughter was born, they went into the dishwasher, and I only boiled the nipples separately. So, I don’t miss anything and still prepare hot water separately when I need it, rather than storing it in the pipe. But that may simply be a matter of habit.
S
Sebastian7925 May 2015 13:16About swimming pools? Well, tastes vary – they come in many different shapes, after all. I find single-lever mixers somewhat outdated (although we will have one at the bathtub as well).
When the baby was an infant, we also sterilized the bottles, but later on (from about one year old) this is no longer necessary. We just rinse the bottles and only continue to sterilize the nipples. However, to remove milk residue, besides a good dish detergent, you need higher water temperatures.
Off topic: Thanks for your explanation, but I hope I misunderstood your comment about it being tiring. I do not want to argue about it (even though I have a different opinion) – I did point out the house rules myself, which I, as a guest, naturally obey…
Still, it is strange – sometimes content is consistently deleted (and by that, I mean links to other forums, wikis, etc.), but other times such posts remain “for informational reasons,” even when they link to a heavily ad-filled, commercial site that presents a quite one-sided (though occasionally different) perspective.
Honestly, I don’t mind in principle, but just consider this a simple note that this causes confusion and irritation. Of course, you can exercise your moderation rights, but it does come across as somewhat questionable and rather contradicts the role of a moderator.
Anyway, thanks again for your open response.
When the baby was an infant, we also sterilized the bottles, but later on (from about one year old) this is no longer necessary. We just rinse the bottles and only continue to sterilize the nipples. However, to remove milk residue, besides a good dish detergent, you need higher water temperatures.
Off topic: Thanks for your explanation, but I hope I misunderstood your comment about it being tiring. I do not want to argue about it (even though I have a different opinion) – I did point out the house rules myself, which I, as a guest, naturally obey…
Still, it is strange – sometimes content is consistently deleted (and by that, I mean links to other forums, wikis, etc.), but other times such posts remain “for informational reasons,” even when they link to a heavily ad-filled, commercial site that presents a quite one-sided (though occasionally different) perspective.
Honestly, I don’t mind in principle, but just consider this a simple note that this causes confusion and irritation. Of course, you can exercise your moderation rights, but it does come across as somewhat questionable and rather contradicts the role of a moderator.
Anyway, thanks again for your open response.
S
Sebastian7926 May 2015 02:35Maybe I would then ask myself why the rule has to be explained over and over again – it clearly isn’t fully understood.
Your view of Wiki is quite biased – and outdated. Especially source citations have basically become mandatory there and are subject to strict self-monitoring by the readership.
What makes an article in Die Zeit any different? Because a journalist wrote it? Because it includes names of people and their supposedly authoritative positions? Have you examined all of that critically, or are you willing to accept it blindly?
But as I said, let’s just leave it at that – it won’t lead to any changes or reconsideration.
Your view of Wiki is quite biased – and outdated. Especially source citations have basically become mandatory there and are subject to strict self-monitoring by the readership.
What makes an article in Die Zeit any different? Because a journalist wrote it? Because it includes names of people and their supposedly authoritative positions? Have you examined all of that critically, or are you willing to accept it blindly?
But as I said, let’s just leave it at that – it won’t lead to any changes or reconsideration.
D
Doc.Schnaggls26 May 2015 08:54Hello,
back to the topic of the circulation pump:
We have installed a "learning" circulation pump, which analyzed during the first few weeks when we used warm water at each outlet — mostly at the shower and bathroom sink in the mornings and evenings.
Now the pump runs automatically at these times, and we have instant hot water. If, however, we shower at an unusual time, such as 3:00 AM, we would need to wait briefly for hot water.
If our usual times change, the pump learns this and will then operate accordingly.
In our view, this type of pump is a reasonable compromise.
Regards,
Dirk
back to the topic of the circulation pump:
We have installed a "learning" circulation pump, which analyzed during the first few weeks when we used warm water at each outlet — mostly at the shower and bathroom sink in the mornings and evenings.
Now the pump runs automatically at these times, and we have instant hot water. If, however, we shower at an unusual time, such as 3:00 AM, we would need to wait briefly for hot water.
If our usual times change, the pump learns this and will then operate accordingly.
In our view, this type of pump is a reasonable compromise.
Regards,
Dirk
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