ᐅ Challenging Floor Plan, Plot, and Historic Building – Section 34
Created on: 11 Feb 2025 21:44
B
buttyhome
Dear Forum,
First of all, we would like to introduce ourselves. We are a family of four and have now found a nice sloped plot in NRW. We are aware that it is considered a "challenging plot" in terms of buildability, but we have fallen in love with the location and the view. It is a total of 390 m² (4200 sq ft) of building land, with green space extending behind the plot. Currently, it is occupied by two buildings, the front one of which is a listed monument requiring renovation. The rear building is in such poor condition that it must be demolished. Of course, the monument must not be significantly disturbed within its ensemble, so a modern flat roof is unfortunately not possible. However, I am hopeful that we can connect the monument with our planned new building by a joint or gap.
First, the current situation: the front house is the monument, which I intend to renovate and use as a home office/guest room.
The front house currently has two floors, but ceiling heights no longer meet our needs due to our height, so we plan, as far as possible, to remove some walls and the ceiling between floors to expose the beams.
Now to our planned new build. We are working with an architect we really trust, who has designed and renovated some truly excellent houses within our circle of friends.
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: buildable - 390 m² (4200 sq ft), with green space behind
Slope: yes, ascending towards the rear, with an incline between 8 and 12 %, so the house will sit at the lower part of the slope. Unfortunately, the view into the valley can only be enjoyed from the upper floor due to buildings on the opposite side of the street.
§34 construction: “mixed neighborhood”, single and two-story buildings with flat and pitched roofs, some 2.5-story pitched roofs
Edge development: apparently quite common in the neighborhood. My architect is more optimistic than I am that edge development will be allowed.
Number of parking spaces: 1
Number of stories: two full floors + pitched roof
Roof type: pitched roof
Style: must integrate with the half-timbered monument for an overall harmony (please no historicism, I prefer modern architecture, perhaps with wooden cladding)
Orientation: The architect insists on building the eaves side facing the street because of window areas. I am unsure if this is possible due to boundary constraints, so I suggest a gable orientation as an alternative. I am particularly interested in your ideas here! We are still in the very first planning phase.
Maximum height / limits: 2.5 stories
Client requirements
Number of occupants: 2 adults + 2 children
Ground floor space needs: master bedroom, 2 children's bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, separate cloakroom, either at the rear (slope) or in the basement: laundry room, storage, building services
Upper floor: large open-plan kitchen and living area with garden access, fireplace, guest toilet
Office: combined with guest room
Occasional overnight guests per year
Open or closed architecture: open plan
Traditional or modern design: modern
Open kitchen with island
Minimum dining seats: 8
Fireplace: yes
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Carport
House design
Not yet available, we are still assessing the basic buildability
Designer: architect versus own ideas
Personal budget for house including fittings: initially open, we want to see what is possible
Preferred heating system: heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without: -
- cannot do without: large window front facing the garden with direct garden/terrace access
Here is the architect’s first concept. She assumes basic buildability including edge development and therefore wants to place the new build with the eaves side directly adjacent to the neighbor. I would prefer a longer joint/gap, but that would make the edge building length disproportionate. I find that unfortunate as I would like the new building positioned further back in the plot to create a larger front courtyard. This is the first idea currently being checked for feasibility by the building and monument authorities:
The extension toward the garden is optional and designed with a flat roof.
My idea would be to extend the building joint further, placing the entrance and cloakroom there, with the new building accessed above. This new building would be rotated to face with its gable. Because it would extend far into the slope, the ground floor would effectively become a basement, and the upper floor would have direct garden access at ground level. I would also need to encroach on the neighboring boundary, but I imagine this might be simpler as I am only planning a single story there. Would the house then have enough windows? You don’t want to orient large window fronts too much towards neighbors, but at least toward the garden I would like to have a large gable window area.
Thank you very much for your suggestions! What do you think is feasible? What are the pros and cons?
I am also still looking for a contour map. All the maps I find online are somewhat coarse. Is there an online resource for NRW? What options should I select in the NRW geoportal to get a good detailed representation?
First of all, we would like to introduce ourselves. We are a family of four and have now found a nice sloped plot in NRW. We are aware that it is considered a "challenging plot" in terms of buildability, but we have fallen in love with the location and the view. It is a total of 390 m² (4200 sq ft) of building land, with green space extending behind the plot. Currently, it is occupied by two buildings, the front one of which is a listed monument requiring renovation. The rear building is in such poor condition that it must be demolished. Of course, the monument must not be significantly disturbed within its ensemble, so a modern flat roof is unfortunately not possible. However, I am hopeful that we can connect the monument with our planned new building by a joint or gap.
First, the current situation: the front house is the monument, which I intend to renovate and use as a home office/guest room.
The front house currently has two floors, but ceiling heights no longer meet our needs due to our height, so we plan, as far as possible, to remove some walls and the ceiling between floors to expose the beams.
Now to our planned new build. We are working with an architect we really trust, who has designed and renovated some truly excellent houses within our circle of friends.
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: buildable - 390 m² (4200 sq ft), with green space behind
Slope: yes, ascending towards the rear, with an incline between 8 and 12 %, so the house will sit at the lower part of the slope. Unfortunately, the view into the valley can only be enjoyed from the upper floor due to buildings on the opposite side of the street.
§34 construction: “mixed neighborhood”, single and two-story buildings with flat and pitched roofs, some 2.5-story pitched roofs
Edge development: apparently quite common in the neighborhood. My architect is more optimistic than I am that edge development will be allowed.
Number of parking spaces: 1
Number of stories: two full floors + pitched roof
Roof type: pitched roof
Style: must integrate with the half-timbered monument for an overall harmony (please no historicism, I prefer modern architecture, perhaps with wooden cladding)
Orientation: The architect insists on building the eaves side facing the street because of window areas. I am unsure if this is possible due to boundary constraints, so I suggest a gable orientation as an alternative. I am particularly interested in your ideas here! We are still in the very first planning phase.
Maximum height / limits: 2.5 stories
Client requirements
Number of occupants: 2 adults + 2 children
Ground floor space needs: master bedroom, 2 children's bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, separate cloakroom, either at the rear (slope) or in the basement: laundry room, storage, building services
Upper floor: large open-plan kitchen and living area with garden access, fireplace, guest toilet
Office: combined with guest room
Occasional overnight guests per year
Open or closed architecture: open plan
Traditional or modern design: modern
Open kitchen with island
Minimum dining seats: 8
Fireplace: yes
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Carport
House design
Not yet available, we are still assessing the basic buildability
Designer: architect versus own ideas
Personal budget for house including fittings: initially open, we want to see what is possible
Preferred heating system: heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without: -
- cannot do without: large window front facing the garden with direct garden/terrace access
Here is the architect’s first concept. She assumes basic buildability including edge development and therefore wants to place the new build with the eaves side directly adjacent to the neighbor. I would prefer a longer joint/gap, but that would make the edge building length disproportionate. I find that unfortunate as I would like the new building positioned further back in the plot to create a larger front courtyard. This is the first idea currently being checked for feasibility by the building and monument authorities:
The extension toward the garden is optional and designed with a flat roof.
My idea would be to extend the building joint further, placing the entrance and cloakroom there, with the new building accessed above. This new building would be rotated to face with its gable. Because it would extend far into the slope, the ground floor would effectively become a basement, and the upper floor would have direct garden access at ground level. I would also need to encroach on the neighboring boundary, but I imagine this might be simpler as I am only planning a single story there. Would the house then have enough windows? You don’t want to orient large window fronts too much towards neighbors, but at least toward the garden I would like to have a large gable window area.
Thank you very much for your suggestions! What do you think is feasible? What are the pros and cons?
I am also still looking for a contour map. All the maps I find online are somewhat coarse. Is there an online resource for NRW? What options should I select in the NRW geoportal to get a good detailed representation?
buttyhome schrieb:
Are you going to save us?That was my first thought, yes.How exactly are the requirements for the existing building? Does it actually need to be renovated, or is it only prohibited from being demolished?
B
buttyhome16 Feb 2025 10:06K a t j a schrieb:
That was my first thought, yes.
How exactly are the regulations for the existing building? Does it actually need to be renovated, or is it only prohibited from being demolished? It can also be left uninhabitable. But of course, owning property comes with responsibilities. Eventually, problems arise from vacancy, and monuments are not allowed to decay either. I would find it a shame not to make use of it.
B
buttyhome16 Feb 2025 10:10K a t j a schrieb:
That was my first thought, yes.May I ask what concerns you the most? The slope? The buildability? The renovation costs for the listed building? Something I am not yet aware of?buttyhome schrieb:
What worries you the most?First and foremost, whether the budget will be enough. But even someone like Rockefeller would consider the best strategic approach. You should always focus on the must-haves first. Although the plan is made for the entire property, outbuildings and small sheds come last.I would only clear out the listed building and secure it against potential damage (roof, moisture). Otherwise, it’s in good condition and can look nice until it’s time to address it.
I wouldn’t attach the new house but rather design it as a separate, freestanding building. At least, depending on the plot size and setback regulations. I haven’t checked that in detail yet. There are several reasons for this. First, you’re on a slope. Building an extension there always causes issues with height regulations. Second, the materials will almost certainly not match. Both visually and technically, that would create unnecessary complications. Third, an insulated construction would be beneficial if you ever want to rent out the listed building in the distant future while maintaining the privacy of the rest of the property.
So, in your position, I would create an overall site plan that shows the final division of the property including all paths, parking spaces, etc. But when it comes to construction, I would focus first and foremost on the new main house and work on optimizing that. Demolition/disposal and preparing the building site alone will probably cost around 60,000 (currency), though it’s difficult to estimate. It could be more expensive if difficulties arise or if you find problematic materials. Hopefully, it can also be cheaper.
Then consider the likely three-story construction, slope stabilization, possible utility connections, all kinds of contingencies regarding water from above, below, and via pipes, zoning regulations, and site work. We also don’t know your exact requirements yet. Depending on the region, 700,000 (currency) can already be completely consumed by the main house including the garden.
My thoughts
The outbuilding must be preserved, so it would be practical to find a use for it in the medium term.
A home office, larger children, renting out on Airbnb. In Sweden, we have often lived in a small outbuilding.
For demolition, talk to several companies. At the time, we received quotes starting at 100,000 and up. In the end, we paid 42,000 including disposal of everything. One way we saved costs was by having flexible timing. We didn’t say it had to be demolished by November, but that the foundation slab would be installed by March, so it had to be cleared by then. They also took their time and sent workers when they were available.
By the way, we demolished much more than you plan to.
We also have a slope. Everyone agreed not to disturb the slope. It’s steeper than yours and there is a road above it as well. Slope stabilization is expensive, and there is always some remaining risk.
The old retaining walls are still standing today. We positioned the house in front of them.
Your architect is responsible for what is legally possible. I think his proposal is not bad.
The outbuilding must be preserved, so it would be practical to find a use for it in the medium term.
A home office, larger children, renting out on Airbnb. In Sweden, we have often lived in a small outbuilding.
For demolition, talk to several companies. At the time, we received quotes starting at 100,000 and up. In the end, we paid 42,000 including disposal of everything. One way we saved costs was by having flexible timing. We didn’t say it had to be demolished by November, but that the foundation slab would be installed by March, so it had to be cleared by then. They also took their time and sent workers when they were available.
By the way, we demolished much more than you plan to.
We also have a slope. Everyone agreed not to disturb the slope. It’s steeper than yours and there is a road above it as well. Slope stabilization is expensive, and there is always some remaining risk.
The old retaining walls are still standing today. We positioned the house in front of them.
Your architect is responsible for what is legally possible. I think his proposal is not bad.
B
buttyhome16 Feb 2025 12:06K a t j a schrieb:
I would just clear out the monument and protect it against potential damage (roof, moisture). Otherwise, it’s in good condition and can look nice until it’s ready for work. I can understand all the arguments well. However, I would bite the bullet and renovate the monument right away (whether for personal use, rental, standalone property, etc.). It will need it sooner or later anyway. Let’s see how interest rates develop. Since I expect higher inflation, they probably won’t drop anytime soon...
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