ᐅ Termination of Collaboration with Architect – Demands Excessive Fees
Created on: 19 Aug 2014 21:56
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SlintreblaS
Slintrebla19 Aug 2014 21:56Hello dear forum members,
Thank you very much for taking the time to help me.
Here is the situation:
My girlfriend and I plan to build a single-family house. Due to strict restrictions from the zoning plan and the shape of the plot, we decided to work with an architect.
In our first meeting, the architect already placed a completed design of a house (which he has probably planned or built before) on our plot. We requested only the following changes to the house:
- extend the house by 0.5m (1.6 feet)
- add a bay window on the west side
- move the guest toilet to an exterior wall
- reduce the size of the basement (garage under the house in the basement) by 0.5m (1.6 feet)
Apart from these changes, we stuck with his standard house model. Just a few additional windows/glass elements were added.
Based on these requested changes, the architect prepared a construction and specification report and drew up the construction contract. All documents and also the email correspondence with the architect contained numerous errors, both formal and factual, which were noticeable even to me as a layperson. Furthermore, the architect did not really accommodate our wishes, and we really had to insist to get a window in the children's bathroom and the guest toilet. Finally, he did not consider our requests for good sound insulation (hollow core doors and not insulated drain pipes—which are standard in social housing) and enclosed rooms (the basement staircase opens directly between the living and dining areas).
For this reason, we involved the Bauherren-Schutzbund (Builder’s Protection Association). They also determined that the pure construction cost of the house is about 271,000€ (without finishing work). The architect wants 320,000€ for the “turnkey” house excluding flooring and painter/plaster work.
After consulting a building expert, we decided to obtain additional offers from other architects. Therefore, we informed the architect that we are not granting him the contract yet but want to gather more offers first. We are of course aware that we have to pay the first architect a fee based on the German HOAI fee structure, which I also communicated in my last email.
Now the architect informed us the following regarding his fee:
“I gladly accept your offer and would like to enter into a contract with you for architectural services for the construction of the single-family house. The minimum commission I accept is HOAI §33 / 34 service phases 1-4. As a basis, I roughly estimate construction costs at 300,000 euros. Architect contract and HOAI (excerpt): Fee basis according to § 35 HOAI: 300,000 euros, fee zone III upper limit (KfW 70 building), 300,000 euros = 49,864 euros, service phases 1-4 according to § 34 = 27% = 13,463.28 euros net + 19% VAT = 16,021.30 euros gross”
So, he wants 16,021.30€ (!!!) as a fee for a standard house (construction description and contract), poor consulting, incomplete documents, and a house that is partly below standard (electronics, insulation, etc.). In my estimation, he probably spent about 40 hours +/- 10 hours on this.
What do you think? I appreciate every response and am happy to provide additional details if it helps clarify the situation.
Best regards
Nils
Thank you very much for taking the time to help me.
Here is the situation:
My girlfriend and I plan to build a single-family house. Due to strict restrictions from the zoning plan and the shape of the plot, we decided to work with an architect.
In our first meeting, the architect already placed a completed design of a house (which he has probably planned or built before) on our plot. We requested only the following changes to the house:
- extend the house by 0.5m (1.6 feet)
- add a bay window on the west side
- move the guest toilet to an exterior wall
- reduce the size of the basement (garage under the house in the basement) by 0.5m (1.6 feet)
Apart from these changes, we stuck with his standard house model. Just a few additional windows/glass elements were added.
Based on these requested changes, the architect prepared a construction and specification report and drew up the construction contract. All documents and also the email correspondence with the architect contained numerous errors, both formal and factual, which were noticeable even to me as a layperson. Furthermore, the architect did not really accommodate our wishes, and we really had to insist to get a window in the children's bathroom and the guest toilet. Finally, he did not consider our requests for good sound insulation (hollow core doors and not insulated drain pipes—which are standard in social housing) and enclosed rooms (the basement staircase opens directly between the living and dining areas).
For this reason, we involved the Bauherren-Schutzbund (Builder’s Protection Association). They also determined that the pure construction cost of the house is about 271,000€ (without finishing work). The architect wants 320,000€ for the “turnkey” house excluding flooring and painter/plaster work.
After consulting a building expert, we decided to obtain additional offers from other architects. Therefore, we informed the architect that we are not granting him the contract yet but want to gather more offers first. We are of course aware that we have to pay the first architect a fee based on the German HOAI fee structure, which I also communicated in my last email.
Now the architect informed us the following regarding his fee:
“I gladly accept your offer and would like to enter into a contract with you for architectural services for the construction of the single-family house. The minimum commission I accept is HOAI §33 / 34 service phases 1-4. As a basis, I roughly estimate construction costs at 300,000 euros. Architect contract and HOAI (excerpt): Fee basis according to § 35 HOAI: 300,000 euros, fee zone III upper limit (KfW 70 building), 300,000 euros = 49,864 euros, service phases 1-4 according to § 34 = 27% = 13,463.28 euros net + 19% VAT = 16,021.30 euros gross”
So, he wants 16,021.30€ (!!!) as a fee for a standard house (construction description and contract), poor consulting, incomplete documents, and a house that is partly below standard (electronics, insulation, etc.). In my estimation, he probably spent about 40 hours +/- 10 hours on this.
What do you think? I appreciate every response and am happy to provide additional details if it helps clarify the situation.
Best regards
Nils
T
toxicmolotof19 Aug 2014 23:44I recommend consulting a lawyer specialized in construction law / HOAI if you want to challenge this.
There are simply too many potential points that could be contested.
A few of them include:
* Estimated construction costs
* Fee zone 3 upper rate for KFW70
* Billable service phases up to your "demolition"...
On the other hand, he can still claim a flat 5% for other expenses. Apparently, rr has waived this.
There are simply too many potential points that could be contested.
A few of them include:
* Estimated construction costs
* Fee zone 3 upper rate for KFW70
* Billable service phases up to your "demolition"...
On the other hand, he can still claim a flat 5% for other expenses. Apparently, rr has waived this.
An architect is not paid by the hour! Therefore, your opinion about how many hours he actually worked or how much you would value a theoretical working hour is irrelevant. Am I correct in understanding that he first provided a quote? You are not obliged to accept it, right? For the 300,000 he must provide a detailed cost breakdown, I think.
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Slintrebla20 Aug 2014 00:44ypg schrieb:
An architect is not paid by the hour! Therefore, your opinion about how many hours they actually worked or how much you value a theoretical working hour is irrelevant. Am I right in understanding that they first provided a quote? You are not obliged to accept it, right? For the 300,000 they must submit a detailed cost breakdown, I believe. Hello YPG,
thank you for your reply.
I thought architects were also billed based on effort, but I guess I was mistaken.
Yes, they provided us with a quote for a turnkey house priced at 311,500€ (about 335,000 USD), which we have now declined. Afterwards, we received a detailed fee breakdown for their charges amounting to 16,000€ (about 17,200 USD).
Could you tell me according to which guidelines an architect can select the fee zone? I’m sure there are specific requirements or criteria for this, aren’t there?
Best regards
Nils
S
Slintrebla20 Aug 2014 00:51toxicmolotow schrieb:
I recommend consulting a lawyer who specializes in construction law/HOAI if you want to take action against this.
There are simply too many points that might be contestable.
A few examples are:
*estimated construction costs
*Fee zone 3 maximum rate for KfW 70
*Billable service phases up to your "termination"...
On the other hand, he can also claim a flat 5% for miscellaneous expenses. Apparently, rr waived that.Hello toxicmolotow,
Thank you very much for your reply.
I have informed the Homeowners’ Protection Association about this today. A discussion is scheduled after my vacation. I will probably have to consult a lawyer specialized in construction law.
Do I understand correctly that for a KfW 70 house, Fee Zone III represents the highest possible fee that can be applied for a house of this class? If so, what is the minimum fee that he can/should/must apply according to HOAI?
When it comes to the construction sum, does he need to itemize every trade/material cost, or is it sufficient to list the construction and service specifications along with the contract showing a total amount of €311,500 (approximately $340,000)?
Thank you in advance for your answer!
Best regards,
Nils
Had you already hired the architect? Is there a contract, even if only verbal, in which it was stated or written that the architectural services are to be paid according to HOAI?
We also asked several architects for proposals, but in the initial meeting, we each agreed that these services would not be paid for until we decided who to choose.
Then we selected the best design.
Certainly, the architects who did not get the commission spent some hours of work, but that’s how it goes.
I also make many offers and only receive one out of every ten contracts.
Ultimately, if the facts are unclear, a court case will likely end in a compromise. It is better to try to reach an agreement beforehand to save legal and court costs.
We also asked several architects for proposals, but in the initial meeting, we each agreed that these services would not be paid for until we decided who to choose.
Then we selected the best design.
Certainly, the architects who did not get the commission spent some hours of work, but that’s how it goes.
I also make many offers and only receive one out of every ten contracts.
Ultimately, if the facts are unclear, a court case will likely end in a compromise. It is better to try to reach an agreement beforehand to save legal and court costs.
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