ᐅ Termination of Collaboration with Architect – Demands Excessive Fees
Created on: 19 Aug 2014 21:56
S
Slintrebla
Hello dear forum members,
Thank you very much for taking the time to help me.
Here is the situation:
My girlfriend and I plan to build a single-family house. Due to strict restrictions from the zoning plan and the shape of the plot, we decided to work with an architect.
In our first meeting, the architect already placed a completed design of a house (which he has probably planned or built before) on our plot. We requested only the following changes to the house:
- extend the house by 0.5m (1.6 feet)
- add a bay window on the west side
- move the guest toilet to an exterior wall
- reduce the size of the basement (garage under the house in the basement) by 0.5m (1.6 feet)
Apart from these changes, we stuck with his standard house model. Just a few additional windows/glass elements were added.
Based on these requested changes, the architect prepared a construction and specification report and drew up the construction contract. All documents and also the email correspondence with the architect contained numerous errors, both formal and factual, which were noticeable even to me as a layperson. Furthermore, the architect did not really accommodate our wishes, and we really had to insist to get a window in the children's bathroom and the guest toilet. Finally, he did not consider our requests for good sound insulation (hollow core doors and not insulated drain pipes—which are standard in social housing) and enclosed rooms (the basement staircase opens directly between the living and dining areas).
For this reason, we involved the Bauherren-Schutzbund (Builder’s Protection Association). They also determined that the pure construction cost of the house is about 271,000€ (without finishing work). The architect wants 320,000€ for the “turnkey” house excluding flooring and painter/plaster work.
After consulting a building expert, we decided to obtain additional offers from other architects. Therefore, we informed the architect that we are not granting him the contract yet but want to gather more offers first. We are of course aware that we have to pay the first architect a fee based on the German HOAI fee structure, which I also communicated in my last email.
Now the architect informed us the following regarding his fee:
“I gladly accept your offer and would like to enter into a contract with you for architectural services for the construction of the single-family house. The minimum commission I accept is HOAI §33 / 34 service phases 1-4. As a basis, I roughly estimate construction costs at 300,000 euros. Architect contract and HOAI (excerpt): Fee basis according to § 35 HOAI: 300,000 euros, fee zone III upper limit (KfW 70 building), 300,000 euros = 49,864 euros, service phases 1-4 according to § 34 = 27% = 13,463.28 euros net + 19% VAT = 16,021.30 euros gross”
So, he wants 16,021.30€ (!!!) as a fee for a standard house (construction description and contract), poor consulting, incomplete documents, and a house that is partly below standard (electronics, insulation, etc.). In my estimation, he probably spent about 40 hours +/- 10 hours on this.
What do you think? I appreciate every response and am happy to provide additional details if it helps clarify the situation.
Best regards
Nils
Thank you very much for taking the time to help me.
Here is the situation:
My girlfriend and I plan to build a single-family house. Due to strict restrictions from the zoning plan and the shape of the plot, we decided to work with an architect.
In our first meeting, the architect already placed a completed design of a house (which he has probably planned or built before) on our plot. We requested only the following changes to the house:
- extend the house by 0.5m (1.6 feet)
- add a bay window on the west side
- move the guest toilet to an exterior wall
- reduce the size of the basement (garage under the house in the basement) by 0.5m (1.6 feet)
Apart from these changes, we stuck with his standard house model. Just a few additional windows/glass elements were added.
Based on these requested changes, the architect prepared a construction and specification report and drew up the construction contract. All documents and also the email correspondence with the architect contained numerous errors, both formal and factual, which were noticeable even to me as a layperson. Furthermore, the architect did not really accommodate our wishes, and we really had to insist to get a window in the children's bathroom and the guest toilet. Finally, he did not consider our requests for good sound insulation (hollow core doors and not insulated drain pipes—which are standard in social housing) and enclosed rooms (the basement staircase opens directly between the living and dining areas).
For this reason, we involved the Bauherren-Schutzbund (Builder’s Protection Association). They also determined that the pure construction cost of the house is about 271,000€ (without finishing work). The architect wants 320,000€ for the “turnkey” house excluding flooring and painter/plaster work.
After consulting a building expert, we decided to obtain additional offers from other architects. Therefore, we informed the architect that we are not granting him the contract yet but want to gather more offers first. We are of course aware that we have to pay the first architect a fee based on the German HOAI fee structure, which I also communicated in my last email.
Now the architect informed us the following regarding his fee:
“I gladly accept your offer and would like to enter into a contract with you for architectural services for the construction of the single-family house. The minimum commission I accept is HOAI §33 / 34 service phases 1-4. As a basis, I roughly estimate construction costs at 300,000 euros. Architect contract and HOAI (excerpt): Fee basis according to § 35 HOAI: 300,000 euros, fee zone III upper limit (KfW 70 building), 300,000 euros = 49,864 euros, service phases 1-4 according to § 34 = 27% = 13,463.28 euros net + 19% VAT = 16,021.30 euros gross”
So, he wants 16,021.30€ (!!!) as a fee for a standard house (construction description and contract), poor consulting, incomplete documents, and a house that is partly below standard (electronics, insulation, etc.). In my estimation, he probably spent about 40 hours +/- 10 hours on this.
What do you think? I appreciate every response and am happy to provide additional details if it helps clarify the situation.
Best regards
Nils
S
Slintrebla15 Sep 2014 20:20Voki1 schrieb:
Is there any update? Hello Voki1,
No, there is no update yet. I have not responded to the architect’s email in which he demanded the €16,000. So far, I haven’t heard anything further from him either.
I’m waiting to see if anything else comes up.
His approach has confirmed for me that deciding not to build with him was the right choice. In hindsight, I’m also glad that the conflict arose now, because changing architects during the construction phase would be very complicated and probably costly….
Best regards,
Nils
F
flexistone16 Sep 2014 15:02Slintrebla schrieb:
Hello Voki1,
No, there is no result yet. I have not responded to the architect’s email in which he demanded the 16,000 euros. So far, I haven’t heard anything further from him.
For now, I’m waiting to see if anything more comes of it.
His approach has shown me that deciding not to work with him is the right choice. In hindsight, I’m also glad that the conflict happened this early, because changing architects during the construction phase is quite complicated and likely costly....
Best regards,
NilsSo, he still hasn’t issued an invoice for his fees? As long as you don’t have an actual, written fee invoice in physical form in front of you, you are at least not in default. But basically, everything is still open. The architect can issue an invoice at any time – the claim for his fee does not expire that quickly. However, I wonder, if you already know him personally, surely there must be an easier way to handle this than going through lawyers, etc.?
That said, I also see, like others before me, the architect’s email only as an offer – nothing more. But fundamentally, such contracts can also be made verbally.
S
Slintrebla16 Sep 2014 15:42flexistone schrieb:
So, he still hasn’t issued a formal invoice? As long as you don’t have an actual written invoice in paper form in front of you, you are at least not in default.
But basically, everything is still up in the air. The architect can issue an invoice at any time—his claim to payment does not expire that quickly.
However, I wonder, since you already know him personally, surely there must be an easier way than involving lawyers, etc.?
But I see, similar to previous commenters, the architect’s email only as an offer—nothing more.
However, the basic principle applies that such contracts can also be concluded verbally.Hello Flexistone,
thank you very much for your reply.
No, there is no invoice in paper form yet, only the email in which he demands a fee of 16,000 euros. For this reason, I do not yet see any reason to get in touch with the architect. Whether we know the architect personally or not, of course I would prefer to reach an agreement out of court. I am aware that the whole situation still hangs over me like a sword of Damocles. I also know that a contract can be concluded by implied conduct.
The question to be clarified, however, will be whether he has a claim to a fee as the general contractor—as he presented himself. If so, it will have to be clarified to what extent phase 3 of the service has been performed. Phases 1 and 2 are undisputed, and phase 4 (the planning permission phase) was definitely not carried out.
For now, I have decided to wait for the architect. I am basically willing to have a clarifying discussion.
Best regards
Nils
Hello,
an architect cannot act as a general contractor. A general contractor and an architect are two completely different roles. The architect does not sell you a house at a fixed price and therefore does not provide a quote for a turnkey house. If they do provide a quote, it is usually only for their fee based on the estimated construction costs.
As an architect, they are bound by the HOAI (Official Scale of Fees for Services by Architects and Engineers) and must invoice according to these regulations.
So, is this person really a general contractor or an architect?
Best regards
an architect cannot act as a general contractor. A general contractor and an architect are two completely different roles. The architect does not sell you a house at a fixed price and therefore does not provide a quote for a turnkey house. If they do provide a quote, it is usually only for their fee based on the estimated construction costs.
As an architect, they are bound by the HOAI (Official Scale of Fees for Services by Architects and Engineers) and must invoice according to these regulations.
So, is this person really a general contractor or an architect?
Best regards
S
Slintrebla16 Sep 2014 16:40E.Curb schrieb:
Hello,
an architect cannot act as a general contractor. A general contractor and an architect are two completely different roles. The architect does not sell you a house at a fixed price nor provide an offer for a turnkey home. If they do give you an offer, it is usually only for their fee based on the estimated construction costs.
As an architect, they are bound by the HOAI (Official Scale of Fees for Services by Architects and Engineers) and must charge accordingly.
So, is this person really a general contractor or an architect?
RegardsThe architect always spoke about a portion of the house that they offered us at a fixed price. Accordingly, they acted as a general contractor offering us a proposal. We rejected this. Afterwards, we received a demand for a fee amounting to nearly €16,000.
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