ᐅ Termination of Collaboration with Architect – Demands Excessive Fees
Created on: 19 Aug 2014 21:56
S
Slintrebla
Hello dear forum members,
Thank you very much for taking the time to help me.
Here is the situation:
My girlfriend and I plan to build a single-family house. Due to strict restrictions from the zoning plan and the shape of the plot, we decided to work with an architect.
In our first meeting, the architect already placed a completed design of a house (which he has probably planned or built before) on our plot. We requested only the following changes to the house:
- extend the house by 0.5m (1.6 feet)
- add a bay window on the west side
- move the guest toilet to an exterior wall
- reduce the size of the basement (garage under the house in the basement) by 0.5m (1.6 feet)
Apart from these changes, we stuck with his standard house model. Just a few additional windows/glass elements were added.
Based on these requested changes, the architect prepared a construction and specification report and drew up the construction contract. All documents and also the email correspondence with the architect contained numerous errors, both formal and factual, which were noticeable even to me as a layperson. Furthermore, the architect did not really accommodate our wishes, and we really had to insist to get a window in the children's bathroom and the guest toilet. Finally, he did not consider our requests for good sound insulation (hollow core doors and not insulated drain pipes—which are standard in social housing) and enclosed rooms (the basement staircase opens directly between the living and dining areas).
For this reason, we involved the Bauherren-Schutzbund (Builder’s Protection Association). They also determined that the pure construction cost of the house is about 271,000€ (without finishing work). The architect wants 320,000€ for the “turnkey” house excluding flooring and painter/plaster work.
After consulting a building expert, we decided to obtain additional offers from other architects. Therefore, we informed the architect that we are not granting him the contract yet but want to gather more offers first. We are of course aware that we have to pay the first architect a fee based on the German HOAI fee structure, which I also communicated in my last email.
Now the architect informed us the following regarding his fee:
“I gladly accept your offer and would like to enter into a contract with you for architectural services for the construction of the single-family house. The minimum commission I accept is HOAI §33 / 34 service phases 1-4. As a basis, I roughly estimate construction costs at 300,000 euros. Architect contract and HOAI (excerpt): Fee basis according to § 35 HOAI: 300,000 euros, fee zone III upper limit (KfW 70 building), 300,000 euros = 49,864 euros, service phases 1-4 according to § 34 = 27% = 13,463.28 euros net + 19% VAT = 16,021.30 euros gross”
So, he wants 16,021.30€ (!!!) as a fee for a standard house (construction description and contract), poor consulting, incomplete documents, and a house that is partly below standard (electronics, insulation, etc.). In my estimation, he probably spent about 40 hours +/- 10 hours on this.
What do you think? I appreciate every response and am happy to provide additional details if it helps clarify the situation.
Best regards
Nils
Thank you very much for taking the time to help me.
Here is the situation:
My girlfriend and I plan to build a single-family house. Due to strict restrictions from the zoning plan and the shape of the plot, we decided to work with an architect.
In our first meeting, the architect already placed a completed design of a house (which he has probably planned or built before) on our plot. We requested only the following changes to the house:
- extend the house by 0.5m (1.6 feet)
- add a bay window on the west side
- move the guest toilet to an exterior wall
- reduce the size of the basement (garage under the house in the basement) by 0.5m (1.6 feet)
Apart from these changes, we stuck with his standard house model. Just a few additional windows/glass elements were added.
Based on these requested changes, the architect prepared a construction and specification report and drew up the construction contract. All documents and also the email correspondence with the architect contained numerous errors, both formal and factual, which were noticeable even to me as a layperson. Furthermore, the architect did not really accommodate our wishes, and we really had to insist to get a window in the children's bathroom and the guest toilet. Finally, he did not consider our requests for good sound insulation (hollow core doors and not insulated drain pipes—which are standard in social housing) and enclosed rooms (the basement staircase opens directly between the living and dining areas).
For this reason, we involved the Bauherren-Schutzbund (Builder’s Protection Association). They also determined that the pure construction cost of the house is about 271,000€ (without finishing work). The architect wants 320,000€ for the “turnkey” house excluding flooring and painter/plaster work.
After consulting a building expert, we decided to obtain additional offers from other architects. Therefore, we informed the architect that we are not granting him the contract yet but want to gather more offers first. We are of course aware that we have to pay the first architect a fee based on the German HOAI fee structure, which I also communicated in my last email.
Now the architect informed us the following regarding his fee:
“I gladly accept your offer and would like to enter into a contract with you for architectural services for the construction of the single-family house. The minimum commission I accept is HOAI §33 / 34 service phases 1-4. As a basis, I roughly estimate construction costs at 300,000 euros. Architect contract and HOAI (excerpt): Fee basis according to § 35 HOAI: 300,000 euros, fee zone III upper limit (KfW 70 building), 300,000 euros = 49,864 euros, service phases 1-4 according to § 34 = 27% = 13,463.28 euros net + 19% VAT = 16,021.30 euros gross”
So, he wants 16,021.30€ (!!!) as a fee for a standard house (construction description and contract), poor consulting, incomplete documents, and a house that is partly below standard (electronics, insulation, etc.). In my estimation, he probably spent about 40 hours +/- 10 hours on this.
What do you think? I appreciate every response and am happy to provide additional details if it helps clarify the situation.
Best regards
Nils
S
Slintrebla20 Aug 2014 09:55Good morning!
Thank you very much for the many comments.
No written contract was signed. But a contract can also be formed through implied conduct, right? At least that is how I understand stefanh’s situation—that this is exactly what happened in his case.
The architect did not inform us about the HOAI (Fee Structure for Architects and Engineers). At least, I am not aware of this from the emails so far. I would need to review all the emails again.
Unfortunately, in my rejection to the architect, I stated that—if the decision is not in his favor—we will of course pay his fees according to the HOAI. However, I assumed that this payment would be based on the actual work performed. The architect also refers to this with "I am happy to accept your offer..."
Best regards Nils
Thank you very much for the many comments.
No written contract was signed. But a contract can also be formed through implied conduct, right? At least that is how I understand stefanh’s situation—that this is exactly what happened in his case.
The architect did not inform us about the HOAI (Fee Structure for Architects and Engineers). At least, I am not aware of this from the emails so far. I would need to review all the emails again.
Unfortunately, in my rejection to the architect, I stated that—if the decision is not in his favor—we will of course pay his fees according to the HOAI. However, I assumed that this payment would be based on the actual work performed. The architect also refers to this with "I am happy to accept your offer..."
Best regards Nils
S
Slintrebla20 Aug 2014 11:08Hello Jochen,
I do not have legal expenses insurance. However – from what I found through a quick online search – there is no legal expenses insurance that covers new house construction. This was only the result of a brief internet research and not professional advice regarding legal expenses insurance.
I will probably involve the lawyer from the Homeowners’ Protection Association since it seems we can’t move forward otherwise.
Regards,
Nils
I do not have legal expenses insurance. However – from what I found through a quick online search – there is no legal expenses insurance that covers new house construction. This was only the result of a brief internet research and not professional advice regarding legal expenses insurance.
I will probably involve the lawyer from the Homeowners’ Protection Association since it seems we can’t move forward otherwise.
Regards,
Nils
B
Bauexperte20 Aug 2014 11:20Hello Nils,
Yes, my sympathy for you is limited; you have correctly noticed that. On one hand, because I find it completely incomprehensible to start a project like building a house and believe you can handle it all on your own as a complete novice; you only involved the homeowners’ protection association later. From your writing style, I also gather that you might not be the most easy-going person; if I am mistaken, I apologize gladly.
But that’s not the main issue here; although I also do not understand why you—assuming the chemistry between you was already off in the first meeting—allowed the draft planning by the architect to proceed quietly. What made you decide not to end the “collaboration” at an early stage?
Regards, Bauexperte
Slintrebla schrieb:I am not writing here to comfort users like you or to give a virtual "hug" via keyboard; nor is this forum a place where all wishes come true.
Thank you very much for your sympathy.
Yes, my sympathy for you is limited; you have correctly noticed that. On one hand, because I find it completely incomprehensible to start a project like building a house and believe you can handle it all on your own as a complete novice; you only involved the homeowners’ protection association later. From your writing style, I also gather that you might not be the most easy-going person; if I am mistaken, I apologize gladly.
Slintrebla schrieb:That is basically correct; if you had read a bit in forums beforehand, you probably would have sought different support. Quite a few “experts” (note, this term is neither protected nor clearly defined) from the homeowners’ protection association know about as much about construction as I do about cattle breeding in America. So, if I were you, I wouldn’t bet on the construction cost estimate from the homeowners’ protection association.
I primarily involved the homeowners’ protection association to check whether any documents might be missing or whether, aside from the services listed in the construction scope and specification, there might be additional services coming up that were not contractually agreed upon. I want to say that I just wanted to make sure nothing was forgotten here and that we would not be surprised during the construction phase by further costs that were not contractually stipulated.
Slintrebla schrieb:That can happen – we have once prepared a building permit / planning permission application and named the property address of another client in it. You should assume that nobody is perfect, and mistakes are a natural part of being human, just like air is for breathing.
This was also solely due to the carelessness of my architect, as he presented us with documents that were really poor quality. For example, in the construction contract (which we didn’t sign!), the name of our neighbors was listed as client...
But that’s not the main issue here; although I also do not understand why you—assuming the chemistry between you was already off in the first meeting—allowed the draft planning by the architect to proceed quietly. What made you decide not to end the “collaboration” at an early stage?
Slintrebla schrieb:You can be sure of that; consider it a “life lesson” and try to handle it more wisely in the future.
As far as your contractual assessment is concerned, I also assume that a contract was formed through implicit conduct.
Regards, Bauexperte
S
Slintrebla20 Aug 2014 11:45Hello Building Expert,0
This time, I’m not thanking you for your comment, as it is only being taken negatively here.
I accept your apology gladly because I am not actually a difficult person.
I am not just talking about one mistake, but a multitude of errors. With one or two mistakes—spelling aside—I would never say anything, as no one is immune to that, as you yourself mentioned. It was just the sheer number of errors that made me want to submit the construction contract along with the work and performance specifications to the Homeowners’ Protection Association.
The chemistry with the architect was already good. We also know him personally, which made the situation even more complicated. That is why the Homeowners’ Protection Association was not involved right from the start, since we actually trusted him. The architect also pointed out some things and gave us good advice that we hadn’t considered before. So the money was not completely wasted.
That he did not listen to us only really became apparent during the meeting with the Homeowners’ Protection Association. Finally, the last email exchange with the architect shows me that it is now right to pull the plug. It would have been much worse if this had happened during the construction phase.
This time, I’m not thanking you for your comment, as it is only being taken negatively here.
I accept your apology gladly because I am not actually a difficult person.
I am not just talking about one mistake, but a multitude of errors. With one or two mistakes—spelling aside—I would never say anything, as no one is immune to that, as you yourself mentioned. It was just the sheer number of errors that made me want to submit the construction contract along with the work and performance specifications to the Homeowners’ Protection Association.
The chemistry with the architect was already good. We also know him personally, which made the situation even more complicated. That is why the Homeowners’ Protection Association was not involved right from the start, since we actually trusted him. The architect also pointed out some things and gave us good advice that we hadn’t considered before. So the money was not completely wasted.
That he did not listen to us only really became apparent during the meeting with the Homeowners’ Protection Association. Finally, the last email exchange with the architect shows me that it is now right to pull the plug. It would have been much worse if this had happened during the construction phase.
B
Bauexperte20 Aug 2014 15:07Hello Nils,
The sentence structure and the word "sympathy" made me think you were being ironic. Alright, sorry about that; I’m not feeling great today – probably my brain isn’t fully working either. My disc has been telling me since yesterday that my body shouldn’t move.
I can’t comment on that, as I don’t have the “explanation” from the homeowners’ protection association regarding your project. On the other hand, I have had my own experiences with this organization...
Agreed.
Additionally, you’ve now learned that it’s rarely a good idea to do business with friends and/or acquaintances; this also applies to family. Take your time to reorient yourself – either an independent architect (and ask about costs beforehand) or a provider you trust. And always remember, there are no difficult plots of land, only poor planning.
Best regards, Bauexperte
Slintrebla schrieb:
this time I won’t thank you for your comment, it’s only taken negatively here
The sentence structure and the word "sympathy" made me think you were being ironic. Alright, sorry about that; I’m not feeling great today – probably my brain isn’t fully working either. My disc has been telling me since yesterday that my body shouldn’t move.
Slintrebla schrieb:
The fact that he didn’t listen to us only really became clear during the conversation with the homeowners’ protection association.
I can’t comment on that, as I don’t have the “explanation” from the homeowners’ protection association regarding your project. On the other hand, I have had my own experiences with this organization...
Slintrebla schrieb:
Finally, the last email from the architect shows me it's the right decision to pull the emergency brake now. It would have been much worse during the construction phase.
Agreed.
Additionally, you’ve now learned that it’s rarely a good idea to do business with friends and/or acquaintances; this also applies to family. Take your time to reorient yourself – either an independent architect (and ask about costs beforehand) or a provider you trust. And always remember, there are no difficult plots of land, only poor planning.
Best regards, Bauexperte
B
Bauexperte20 Aug 2014 15:12Hello,
Best regards, Bauexperte
wewerad schrieb:This comment is not very helpful now, as it does not clarify the contract terms involved or whether it applies to the original poster’s situation. Since you seem knowledgeable on the subject, could you please provide more detailed information about this case?
There was an architect who sold his services for a design, but the construction project was not carried out. Afterwards, he wanted to receive full payment for the same plans from another client. This did not work out as expected.
Best regards, Bauexperte
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