ᐅ Unique floor plan or just a standard layout with a basement?
Created on: 8 Oct 2023 22:40
F
FamilieForest
Hello dear floor plan experts,
I’ll get straight to the point and start with the questionnaire:
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size – approx. 1000m² (to be subdivided)
Slope – approx. 60cm (2 ft) height difference over 10m (approximate building area)
Location – Bavaria (Franconia)
Some details are unknown because there is no development plan (e.g., floor area ratio, plot ratio, building area, building line and boundary, edge development, etc.)
Roof style / design / orientation according to surroundings – but really almost everything is present in the neighborhood.
Client Requirements
Style, roof design, building type – Single-family house – preferably hip roof / clipped hip roof, possibly also gable roof with high knee wall, not just rectangular
Basement, floors – Basement + ground floor + upper floor
Number of people, ages – 2 adults (31, 32) and one child (2 years) + 2nd child not excluded
Space requirements for ground floor and upper floor –
Ground floor: Living-dining room adjacent to kitchen (separate room, preferably with large sliding door to dining room), pantry connected to kitchen, 1 office with sofa bed (10m² (108 sq ft)), WC and shower
Upper floor: 2 children's rooms (preferably equal size, at least 14m² (150 sq ft)), master bedroom, walk-in closet (separate from bedroom), 1 bathroom
Basement: Study (+ sofa bed), workshop (craft room), technical room, storage space
Office use: family or home office? – I work permanently from home, my husband 2 days per week
Guests per year – 4 (family from farther away, so although “only” 4, more frequent during the year)
Open or closed architecture – rather closed, but spacious living/dining area
Conservative or modern construction – good question?
Open kitchen, kitchen island – closed kitchen, considering the size / closed-off kitchen probably no island, possibly an extended kitchen counter with 3 bar stools?
Number of dining seats – 8 in the dining room, 3-4 bar stools in the kitchen
Fireplace – maybe
Music/stereo wall – no
Balcony, roof terrace – not essential, but okay if it fits well
Garage, carport – preferably double garage, but probably initially nothing due to costs, then double carport
Utility garden, greenhouse – not planned yet
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, also reasons why some things should or should not be included – We need storage space + a second study, hence the desire for a basement, beautiful south-facing view, therefore living/dining area faces south, entrance on the east (street side), no rectangular box-shaped house – preferably something “special” like a corner annex or bay window
House Design
Who is the designer? Architect
What do you particularly like? Why? – Coatroom and shower/WC on the ground floor take up little space and are functional – orientation towards street + north side also good, pantry adjacent to kitchen with passage through kitchen cabinet wall, dining room layout facing south (planned corner glazing at the dining table), room sizes nice
What don’t you like? Why? – We miss the “special touch,” kitchen space feels wasted, staircase possibly too large?
Price estimate from architect/planner: 750,000€ (approx. $810,000) including basement (prefabricated house manufacturer’s offer)
Personal price limit for house including equipment: 650,000€ (approx. $700,000)
Preferred heating technology: Underfloor heating / photovoltaic system
If you have to do without, which details / additional features:
You can do without: Hip roof, sauna and shower in basement, hobby/workshop room
You cannot do without: Basement, photovoltaic system, pantry, 2nd study, storage space, plus energy (also with regard to KFW 300 funding)
Why did the design turn out the way it is? For example:
Which wishes were implemented exactly by the architect? It was implemented 1:1 exactly as we said without the architect’s own ideas or objections.
We were recommended the architect from the prefabricated house company and planned together, but now we are being strongly advised against the basement (we have poor soil conditions, so a waterproof concrete shell must be planned, and the basement costs about 130,000€ (approx. $140,000) plus incidental construction costs). However, we are not satisfied yet because the cost estimate far exceeds our budget. The fact is: As it is now, we cannot afford it, even though some parameters (650k budget, no rectangular shape, basement) were clearly communicated from the start. Now we are being asked either to leave out the basement (we already reduced it to just a useful basement) or to make the house rectangular on the upper floors (9 x 11m (30 x 36 ft) – so the “annex” removed).
Do you perhaps have recommendations regarding providers – maybe with our many wishes we simply cannot afford to build a house with Luxhaus, and we need to reduce scope to a “mid-range” manufacturer... A “low budget” option (Massa Haus, Allkauf Haus, Okal Haus) is not an option if it compromises quality.
What we hope for now are critical reviews of our floor plan and ideas for the “special something.” Also an assessment of whether a basement really makes no sense in our case. Are there alternative floor plans that really include storage space? If we add 2 rooms on the upper floor + ground floor instead of a basement, we will probably also reach the 130,000€ the basement would cost. Unfortunately, we only discovered this great forum now and already hired (through recommendation) an architect, but we hope with your help we can still “save something.”
Thanks so much in advance!
I’ll get straight to the point and start with the questionnaire:
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size – approx. 1000m² (to be subdivided)
Slope – approx. 60cm (2 ft) height difference over 10m (approximate building area)
Location – Bavaria (Franconia)
Some details are unknown because there is no development plan (e.g., floor area ratio, plot ratio, building area, building line and boundary, edge development, etc.)
Roof style / design / orientation according to surroundings – but really almost everything is present in the neighborhood.
Client Requirements
Style, roof design, building type – Single-family house – preferably hip roof / clipped hip roof, possibly also gable roof with high knee wall, not just rectangular
Basement, floors – Basement + ground floor + upper floor
Number of people, ages – 2 adults (31, 32) and one child (2 years) + 2nd child not excluded
Space requirements for ground floor and upper floor –
Ground floor: Living-dining room adjacent to kitchen (separate room, preferably with large sliding door to dining room), pantry connected to kitchen, 1 office with sofa bed (10m² (108 sq ft)), WC and shower
Upper floor: 2 children's rooms (preferably equal size, at least 14m² (150 sq ft)), master bedroom, walk-in closet (separate from bedroom), 1 bathroom
Basement: Study (+ sofa bed), workshop (craft room), technical room, storage space
Office use: family or home office? – I work permanently from home, my husband 2 days per week
Guests per year – 4 (family from farther away, so although “only” 4, more frequent during the year)
Open or closed architecture – rather closed, but spacious living/dining area
Conservative or modern construction – good question?
Open kitchen, kitchen island – closed kitchen, considering the size / closed-off kitchen probably no island, possibly an extended kitchen counter with 3 bar stools?
Number of dining seats – 8 in the dining room, 3-4 bar stools in the kitchen
Fireplace – maybe
Music/stereo wall – no
Balcony, roof terrace – not essential, but okay if it fits well
Garage, carport – preferably double garage, but probably initially nothing due to costs, then double carport
Utility garden, greenhouse – not planned yet
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, also reasons why some things should or should not be included – We need storage space + a second study, hence the desire for a basement, beautiful south-facing view, therefore living/dining area faces south, entrance on the east (street side), no rectangular box-shaped house – preferably something “special” like a corner annex or bay window
House Design
Who is the designer? Architect
What do you particularly like? Why? – Coatroom and shower/WC on the ground floor take up little space and are functional – orientation towards street + north side also good, pantry adjacent to kitchen with passage through kitchen cabinet wall, dining room layout facing south (planned corner glazing at the dining table), room sizes nice
What don’t you like? Why? – We miss the “special touch,” kitchen space feels wasted, staircase possibly too large?
Price estimate from architect/planner: 750,000€ (approx. $810,000) including basement (prefabricated house manufacturer’s offer)
Personal price limit for house including equipment: 650,000€ (approx. $700,000)
Preferred heating technology: Underfloor heating / photovoltaic system
If you have to do without, which details / additional features:
You can do without: Hip roof, sauna and shower in basement, hobby/workshop room
You cannot do without: Basement, photovoltaic system, pantry, 2nd study, storage space, plus energy (also with regard to KFW 300 funding)
Why did the design turn out the way it is? For example:
Which wishes were implemented exactly by the architect? It was implemented 1:1 exactly as we said without the architect’s own ideas or objections.
We were recommended the architect from the prefabricated house company and planned together, but now we are being strongly advised against the basement (we have poor soil conditions, so a waterproof concrete shell must be planned, and the basement costs about 130,000€ (approx. $140,000) plus incidental construction costs). However, we are not satisfied yet because the cost estimate far exceeds our budget. The fact is: As it is now, we cannot afford it, even though some parameters (650k budget, no rectangular shape, basement) were clearly communicated from the start. Now we are being asked either to leave out the basement (we already reduced it to just a useful basement) or to make the house rectangular on the upper floors (9 x 11m (30 x 36 ft) – so the “annex” removed).
Do you perhaps have recommendations regarding providers – maybe with our many wishes we simply cannot afford to build a house with Luxhaus, and we need to reduce scope to a “mid-range” manufacturer... A “low budget” option (Massa Haus, Allkauf Haus, Okal Haus) is not an option if it compromises quality.
What we hope for now are critical reviews of our floor plan and ideas for the “special something.” Also an assessment of whether a basement really makes no sense in our case. Are there alternative floor plans that really include storage space? If we add 2 rooms on the upper floor + ground floor instead of a basement, we will probably also reach the 130,000€ the basement would cost. Unfortunately, we only discovered this great forum now and already hired (through recommendation) an architect, but we hope with your help we can still “save something.”
Thanks so much in advance!
F
FamilieForest9 Oct 2023 21:52hanse987 schrieb:
The height of the floor-to-ceiling doors on the upper floor is marked as 2.11 meters (7 feet). The two doors in the bedroom leading to the (roof) terrace are marked as 1.92 meters (6 feet 4 inches). I now think that the top edges of all doors are actually at the same height. Thanks – so far we’ve completely ignored the windows and doors because we wanted to focus first on the biggest issues: the floor plan/layout and whether to have a basement or not. We’re actually already overwhelmed by these decisions.
Neubau31 schrieb:
We planned our requirements first with one, then after careful selection, with two different prefab house manufacturers. The result was about €100,000 over our budget (so we would have used up our contingency right away).
I then tried to find a construction company for our basement to get a price estimate. A regional builder in our town (highly recommended and reputable) was able to help. The owner said he could build the same house for €100,000 less, but as a solid masonry construction. That’s what we did and we are completely satisfied. Thanks for sharing your experience, that definitely gives hope that nothing is lost yet 🙂 And great that you are happy with your choice.
Did you get your floor plan from an independent architect, did you develop it with the prefab house manufacturers, or did you work out a new plan afterwards with the local builder?
andimann schrieb:
Hello,
I would swap child number 2’s room with the master bedroom. Why would you put the brightest, sunniest spot on the upper floor in a room where you only sleep (in the dark)?
And the children’s rooms should be exactly the same size. Hi Andreas,
I totally agree with you. This is exactly on our wish list for the architect once he returns from vacation. Both kids’ rooms must be the same size and both get the nice south-facing location.
haydee schrieb:
Huge kitchen and tiny dining area in the living room. That’s what stands out to me immediately. Not exactly spacious. We don’t like that whole area either, something definitely needs to be changed. But we also want the pantry to be fully integrated, not wasting so much space in the kitchen. So there’s still quite a lot to adjust here.
haydee schrieb:
Be sure to draw in existing or desired furniture to scale and consider clearance space. Good advice. We already started doing that in Sweet Home 3D. But as soon as you have to scale everything down again, the furniture soon won’t fit…
Downsizing doesn’t mean switching to dollhouse furniture.
For example, the three bar stools in the kitchen disappear, and that space, including circulation area, becomes part of the living room. Almost all of the pantry storage fits into the space behind the concealed door.
The sauna moves into the bathroom or later becomes an outdoor sauna in the garden.
As long as there is only one child, the second bedroom serves as a home office; later, the workspace moves into the walk-in closet.
Think it over again. Prioritize everything into must-have and nice-to-have. It won’t help if money worries stress you out and cause you to skip the sauna.
Rensch-Haus offers the Clou line for affordable houses. You get Rensch-Haus quality with very limited customization options. You need to be comfortable with that. Two or three flooring options; everything else costs extra.
Check if there are smaller carpentry businesses that only build one house at a time.
For example, the three bar stools in the kitchen disappear, and that space, including circulation area, becomes part of the living room. Almost all of the pantry storage fits into the space behind the concealed door.
The sauna moves into the bathroom or later becomes an outdoor sauna in the garden.
As long as there is only one child, the second bedroom serves as a home office; later, the workspace moves into the walk-in closet.
Think it over again. Prioritize everything into must-have and nice-to-have. It won’t help if money worries stress you out and cause you to skip the sauna.
Rensch-Haus offers the Clou line for affordable houses. You get Rensch-Haus quality with very limited customization options. You need to be comfortable with that. Two or three flooring options; everything else costs extra.
Check if there are smaller carpentry businesses that only build one house at a time.
F
FamilieForest9 Oct 2023 23:00ypg schrieb:
So, according to the basic soil survey, you’re saying it’s not possible—or rather not recommended, also for cost reasons—to build a basement?! A basement could be built, but the use of a waterproof concrete container (white tank), potentially an uplift protection, and the additional excavation and disposal will lead to significant extra costs. I’ll attach the soil report, but even according to the basement rule from 11Ant, it seems more “reasonable” to build without a basement.
ypg schrieb:
A basement replacement room, technical room, and hobby space can also be integrated inside the house itself, for example by increasing the floor area or partially converting the roof space. Is there a general rule of thumb on how much the house would need to be enlarged for that? If I take €3,500/m² (about $370 per ft²) as a reference, could that give roughly 20m² (215 ft²) of additional space each in the upper floor and attic? However, not having a basement would also mean we’d need a pitched roof instead of the desired hipped roof to accommodate storage space. How can I envision a partial roof conversion with a pitched roof? And are there standard values on how much a half story with a high knee wall typically costs, so that I can get an approximate idea of how much the floor area could realistically be increased?
ypg schrieb:
I guess I’ll have to let go of the current house design. I’m afraid so… unless the architect can still work some magic and somehow improve the kitchen/dining/pantry layout so that we can be happy with a simple rectangle after all.
F
FamilieForest9 Oct 2023 23:12F
FamilieForest9 Oct 2023 23:18hanghaus2023 schrieb:
60 cm (24 inches) is not a significant slope. The basement rule from @11ant says a basement is not worth it there.
Especially not with groundwater issues.
Which direction does the slope face?
Without a basement, you will probably stay within budget.
Is the northern boundary still negotiable?
Are there no photos of the property?
No aerial image of the surroundings?
Did the architect work without a soil survey and site plan? Yes, a basement is clearly expensive on our plot due to poor soil conditions and not very practical because of the slight slope.
The soil survey is in the previous post: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/besonderer-grundriss-oder-langweilig-mit-keller.46188/post-642829, which also includes photos of the property.
The northern boundary is still negotiable and will only be finalized once the house layout and positioning are fixed.
I have uploaded an aerial image of the surroundings here: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/besonderer-grundriss-oder-langweilig-mit-keller.46188/post-642819
The architect had the soil survey and planned accordingly. A site plan is not yet available, as our first step with the architect is to submit a building permit / planning permission inquiry.
F
FamilieForest9 Oct 2023 23:30haydee schrieb:
For example, the 3 bar stools in the kitchen disappear, and the space including the circulation area becomes part of the living room. Almost all of the pantry’s storage fits into the space behind the hidden door.We have also considered this approach to achieve the rectangular layout. See attachment – it’s a rough sketch made with SweetHome3D. What exactly do you mean by the pantry’s storage and the hidden space behind the door?haydee schrieb:
The sauna will be moved to the bathroom or later as an outdoor sauna in the garden.We removed that first (actually the shower planned there was removed even earlier).haydee schrieb:
As long as there is only one child, the second children’s room will be used as a study; later the workspace will move to the dressing room.It is quite likely that child number 2 will be there before the house is finished… but at the beginning, a second children’s room isn’t needed. Child 1 is now 2.5 years old and currently doesn’t have a room either due to space constraints.haydee schrieb:
Rensch-Haus offers the Clou line for affordable houses. You get Rensch-Haus quality but with very limited options for customization. That’s something you have to be comfortable with. Two or three types of flooring; anything else costs extra.
Check if there are smaller carpentry firms that only build one house at a time.Thanks for the tip. We will take a look at Rensch-Haus. The name put me off a bit because it reminded me of “rubbish,” and since there are so many options, it wasn’t originally in our shortlist. Are smaller carpentry companies really worth considering? I’ve often heard that they lack experience, which results in much longer construction times and more mistakes. Also that smaller firms tend to be significantly more expensive.
Similar topics