ᐅ Installation of a Gas Heating System in New Construction 2023/2024

What does "lasts shorter than a gas heating system" mean? My Buderus condensing boiler from 2010 basically needed the combustion chamber, the core component, replaced after 10 years because it was worn out. This was despite annual professional maintenance.

With a heat pump, you can also easily replace individual components without any problem. You don’t just throw away a car if the exhaust is broken...

It’s really a pointless discussion.

sysrun80 schrieb:

What does it mean that it lasts shorter than a gas boiler? My Buderus condensing boiler from 2010 basically needed the "combustion chamber," the core component, replaced after 10 years, despite annual servicing by professionals.

With heat pumps, you can also easily replace individual components. You don’t throw away a car just because the exhaust is damaged...

For example, Nibe states that between 4,000 and 16,000 compressor starts per year are still within the normal range (Nibe homepage). Other manufacturers estimate up to 50,000 operating hours.

If you have a properly sized heating system, the compressor, as the heart of the heat pump, should last between 20 and 30 years. The pumps themselves last essentially forever – when I replaced my oil boiler, the original pumps from 1990 were still in use (for heating and circulation). European (particularly German) manufacturers tend to install pumps that are somewhat under-dimensioned, whereas Japanese manufacturers use much more robust models, which in normal operation only draw about 30-40% of their maximum capacity.

Buschreiter schrieb:

If a heat pump makes strange noises, maybe it’s time to check it… I would consider that more important than a refrigerator! As already mentioned, all experts say that heat pumps have a significantly shorter lifespan than gas boilers.

A refrigerator is actually a heat pump. Obviously, it operates at a much lower capacity, but it is one nonetheless.
It always seems strange that heat pumps are considered a new and unproven technology with no long-term experience. That is simply not true.
The claim that all experts say this is also not accurate.
Regarding air-to-water heat pumps for heating residential buildings, there used to be some issues, especially with non-modulating pumps and poor hydraulic design.
Modern heat pumps modulate, and compressors nowadays can handle many more start-stop cycles.
This was explained to me by an engineer specializing in building services/MEP.

Buschreiter schrieb:

Maybe also due to oversizing by the heating technician (that’s how it’s always been done…) causing too frequent cycling... that would be one possible reason!

It’s more a question of efficiency. The aforementioned engineer also said that it basically does not matter whether the heat pump cycles once per day or three times per hour.
It only becomes problematic if it cycles 50-100 times per hour. That can only happen with completely flawed hydraulic design, and even then, usually not with modulating units.

So, the concern seems to be a much bigger issue than reality—it probably will turn out to be a hot air balloon.

But I don’t know this from first-hand experience either. So, let’s wait and see what happens in 20 years.

Tolentino schrieb:

A refrigerator is a heat pump. Clearly with a much lower capacity, but nevertheless, it is one.
It’s always strange to me why heat pumps are considered a new and unproven technology without long-term experience. That’s simply not true.
It’s also wrong that all experts say so.
In regard to air-to-water heat pumps for heating residential buildings, there used to be issues, especially with non-modulating pumps and poorly designed hydraulics.
Modern heat pumps modulate, and compressors can now handle many more switching cycles.
That was told to me by an engineer specializing in building services engineering / technical building equipment (TBE).

It’s more of an efficiency issue. The aforementioned engineer also said it basically doesn’t matter whether it cycles once a day or three times per hour.
The problem only arises when it cycles 50 to 100 times per hour. That only happens with really bad hydraulics, and even modulating pumps usually don’t do that.

So, an oversized concern is being stirred up here, which will probably turn out to be just hot air.

But I don’t know this firsthand either. So we’ll have to wait and see what happens in 20 years.

A Waldorf engineer? Or where did he get his qualifications? Cycling three times per hour would be 70 cycles per day, around 200 heating days per year, so between 10,000 and 14,000 cycles annually!

The pump would typically become an economic write-off after about 8 years.

Great engineer.

The issues with heat pumps continue. Most of the heat pumps installed so far are extremely harmful to the environment because of their refrigerants and are set to be banned. We have to save the planet, after all.

So anyone who has installed such a heat pump is considered an environmental offender and should be punished. Of course, a ban is also being threatened — how could it be otherwise?

Naturally, there are already more environmentally friendly solutions available in the latest generation of heat pumps. Propane is expected to become the refrigerant of the future. As the name implies, propane is a gas — and an explosive gas at that.

There are serious concerns about the safety of these heat pumps. There is a risk that houses could explode. Flammable, explosive gas in heating systems. As always, I can’t provide links. But clearly, this technology is not fully developed yet.

Bausparfuchs schrieb:

The trouble with heat pumps continues. Most of the heat pumps installed so far use refrigerants that are extremely harmful to the environment and are supposed to be banned. After all, we have to save the planet.

So anyone who has installed such a heat pump is an environmental culprit and should be punished. And, as expected, a ban is threatened!

That is, of course, sensationalist nonsense. It is true that refrigerants are improving and are generally climate-impacting only if they leak from the refrigeration circuit. Normally, they do not leak. This is why these maintenance tasks can only be carried out by certified technicians with refrigerant handling certification.
What is true is that refrigerants are evolving—they are becoming more efficient and less harmful to the climate in case of leakage.
Yes, outdated refrigerants will eventually be banned for retrofitting or refilling. But in the closed loop of a heat pump, this is not an issue at all, just like with your refrigerator (no, Mr. Habeck won’t be coming to take it away from you anytime soon, don’t worry).

Bausparfuchs schrieb:

Of course, there are already environmentally friendly options in the latest generation of heat pumps. Propane is supposed to be the refrigerant of the future. Propane, as the name suggests, is a gas. And a flammable gas at that.

There are serious safety concerns about these heat pumps. Houses could explode. Flammable, explosive gas in heating systems. As always, I can’t provide links. But this is definitely not fully developed yet.

Really? A tiny amount of propane scares you, but a gas pipeline into the house and continuous combustion inside the living space is not a problem, right?
Breaking news: Grandma Erna has 3000 liters (790 gallons) of fuel oil in her basement and still hasn’t exploded.

Please clearly mark satire as such, thanks.