ᐅ Installation of a Gas Heating System in New Construction 2023/2024

Tolentino schrieb:

I really don’t understand a small hydroelectric power plant on a stream. What is the legal basis for that?

From a nature conservation perspective, that is anything but unproblematic. That’s why.

However, I want to point out again that we should actually only be discussing the specific issue here: heat pumps in new buildings in 2023 and possibly 2024. And arguing against heat pumps is already a tough stance. The emission limits are really ridiculously low.

Ok, in my mind, it wasn’t a dam with turbines but a small water wheel with a generator on the edge. My imagination doesn’t extend to environmental impacts. Of course, the output won’t be high, but such a device could provide around 50-100W continuously. That’s enough to power some lighting, a fan in summer, or even a laptop for office work.

Bausparfuchs schrieb:

All heat pumps, with few exceptions—namely the new models using propane as a refrigerant—are extremely harmful to the environment and should more or less be banned as well.

Quick question: How many homeowners already have a modern heat pump running on propane at this point?

All current heat pumps that you can buy new—and that’s what we’re really talking about here. Anyone buying another type now is at least as lost as those who still install gas or oil heating systems today.

Bausparfuchs schrieb:

There’s often a comparison with Norway or Denmark: cold winter temperatures and electric heating. But that’s not a problem there. In Norway, electricity costs 4 cents per kilowatt-hour. Here, it’s over 40 cents.

Incomes in Norway are significantly higher than in Germany, and yet they pay only a tenth of the German electricity price. We’re clearly dealing with completely different conditions.

Currently, new contracts are available for just under 30 cents per kWh.

Bausparfuchs schrieb:

With electricity at 4 cents per kWh for heat pump operation, electric heating with a 60-degree Celsius (140°F) supply temperature is certainly feasible and economically justifiable. You could even keep the radiators. But that’s where state climate protection interest quickly ends.

That’s why underfloor heating and/or radiators designed for low supply temperatures are recommended.

Bausparfuchs schrieb:

And of course, I have underfloor heating in my bathrooms. It’s comfortable there. But I simply don’t want underfloor heating in the other rooms. I just don’t feel comfortable with it. Likewise, I don’t feel comfortable in these new, airtight, well-insulated houses. The indoor climate in most new houses is a disaster. Of course, no one admits that.

I see it quite differently. I currently live in a KFW55-standard apartment with underfloor heating and find the indoor climate much better than in my old historic apartment. The heat is distributed more evenly, there are no cold spots, and if you sit near a wall, it isn’t freezing cold. Overall, the warmth feels much “fuller,” and I can’t think of a better way to describe it right now. Have you ever walked barefoot on tiles in an old apartment after the window has been open for five minutes? Very cold.

Bausparfuchs schrieb:

The whole climate discussion is just a side issue. Nothing significant is happening with electricity storage for solar and wind power. Actual global emissions reduction? None at all.

Bausparfuchs schrieb:

Besides, we neither have the grid capacity nor enough electricity to support such massive electric consumption.

What does that have to do with heat pumps? Whether we have the capacity in Germany or not is not a problem for us consumers. But the climate certainly is. There are surely plenty of experts with far more knowledge than all of us combined looking after that. Also, laws wouldn’t be written without prior discussion with all relevant authorities. That’s always part of the process. Globally, we can only reduce emissions if countries lead by example. But just because others don’t care doesn’t mean we can be indifferent.

Bausparfuchs schrieb:

And to make it clear with typical AfD slogans: Germany’s economic location and its citizens are to be coldly expropriated.

No one is being expropriated by the government here, whatever the reason may be. We simply failed to act in this area over recent years. Now things have to move quickly, and we may all have to make some compromises. However, once we get through all this and can produce most of our electricity from renewables, everything will become cheaper again and prosperity will be higher than before. What do you think makes electricity in Norway so cheap?

Installing a gas heating system now is simply foolish for both your wallet and the climate. It won’t take five years before CO2 is taxed heavily and properly. And if you want normal radiators or are just not convinced otherwise, you’ll probably have to accept that this is no longer possible. Not everything can be allowed if it harms everyone else. One’s personal freedom ends where that of others begins.

I don’t want to make this personal @Bausparfuchs, but you are not the center of the universe. The scientific consensus is the one supported and implemented by our government. And that is exactly how it should be.

Of course, there is a loss in value due to the mandatory heating system modernization. But honestly, for the past 30 to 40 years, subsequent generations have essentially been dispossessed against better knowledge. Therefore, there is little sympathy.

Hello,

Bausparfuchs schrieb:

Flow temperature of 60 degrees heated electrically is of course possible

What on earth are you always doing with your 60-degree flow temperature? Are you trying to heat your sauna directly with that, or do you only have heating pipes without any radiators on the walls?
I grew up in a house built in 1971 with correspondingly basic insulation. That was still the time when oil cost just a few pennies and radiators were even installed in garages to make sure the car didn’t freeze.
Our flow temperature in winter never exceeded 37–40°C (99–104°F), which was more than enough even with poor insulation and standard radiators. Only during extreme frost would it go up to around 45°C (113°F), but that was the limit.

A little tip: closing windows makes a huge difference in winter....

Andreas