Hello everyone,
We are currently planning our house and, like many others, are trying to decide on the right heating system.
The construction site is in Herrischried (880 m (2880 ft)) in the Hotzenwald area, so there is a lot of snow and it gets quite cold in winter.
I am considering an air-to-air heat pump supported by a solar or photovoltaic system with a battery storage (a controlled ventilation system will be installed), but is this a good solution?
Since we don’t want gas/liquefied petroleum gas (there is no gas supply even on the street), oil, or pellets, we need an efficient and economical alternative.
I am quite overwhelmed by all the information I have read and by what various building consultants say about what would be better. I’m not sure if they are just trying to sell me their products.
Thanks in advance for your answers.
Best regards,
Michael
We are currently planning our house and, like many others, are trying to decide on the right heating system.
The construction site is in Herrischried (880 m (2880 ft)) in the Hotzenwald area, so there is a lot of snow and it gets quite cold in winter.
I am considering an air-to-air heat pump supported by a solar or photovoltaic system with a battery storage (a controlled ventilation system will be installed), but is this a good solution?
Since we don’t want gas/liquefied petroleum gas (there is no gas supply even on the street), oil, or pellets, we need an efficient and economical alternative.
I am quite overwhelmed by all the information I have read and by what various building consultants say about what would be better. I’m not sure if they are just trying to sell me their products.
Thanks in advance for your answers.
Best regards,
Michael
S
Sebastian798 Sep 2015 13:38No, of course not – it doesn’t always seem to be sunny when you actually need to heat up 😉
Hello!
In my opinion, none of the currently available systems are fundamentally bad. I think the heated debates in online forums can be somewhat exaggerated. It always depends on the individual situation what is advisable, and in the end, good planning and proper installation of a heating system are more important than the type of heating.
Gas heating comes with low upfront costs but higher consumption. With certain measures such as insulation, better energy efficiency levels (KfW standards), solar thermal, photovoltaic systems, or heat pumps, you can reduce consumption, but this increases the initial investment, so it roughly evens out in the end. It should also be clear that the lower the consumption costs already are, the harder it becomes to save on further investment costs through even lower consumption. A KfW-100 (energy efficient) house built in 2015 already has significantly lower consumption costs than a house from the 1980s or 1990s.
Gas is becoming interesting again because electricity prices (relevant for electric heat pumps) have risen sharply, while gas prices have remained stable.
In unfavorable situations, where heat pumps have high electricity consumption, the high electricity price can make a big difference—for example, a heat pump in a house located in a colder region, drawing heat during the heating season from very cold outdoor air (down to -20°C (–4°F)), combined with a high heating demand due to poor insulation and the generally colder climate.
For heat pumps, highly efficient ground-source heat pumps that extract heat from the ground (+5°C (41°F)) are becoming increasingly attractive—especially since this year there is a subsidy of €4,500 for ground-source heat pumps with a calculated annual performance factor of at least 4.5, provided by BAFA.
There is a website on the topic of "heating system comparisons," created by an energy consultant named Alois Zimmermann, which compares the investment, operating, and maintenance costs of various heating systems using a sample calculation (with certain assumptions regarding house size, heating demand, and price increases). This site might be helpful for you.
Alternatively, you can hire an energy consultant to calculate the optimal heating option for your personal situation.
Best regards
jx7
PS: We are currently planning a single-family house in the warm Rhine Plain near Mainz with KfW-70 standard and a ground-source heat pump (deep drilling/geothermal).
In my opinion, none of the currently available systems are fundamentally bad. I think the heated debates in online forums can be somewhat exaggerated. It always depends on the individual situation what is advisable, and in the end, good planning and proper installation of a heating system are more important than the type of heating.
Gas heating comes with low upfront costs but higher consumption. With certain measures such as insulation, better energy efficiency levels (KfW standards), solar thermal, photovoltaic systems, or heat pumps, you can reduce consumption, but this increases the initial investment, so it roughly evens out in the end. It should also be clear that the lower the consumption costs already are, the harder it becomes to save on further investment costs through even lower consumption. A KfW-100 (energy efficient) house built in 2015 already has significantly lower consumption costs than a house from the 1980s or 1990s.
Gas is becoming interesting again because electricity prices (relevant for electric heat pumps) have risen sharply, while gas prices have remained stable.
In unfavorable situations, where heat pumps have high electricity consumption, the high electricity price can make a big difference—for example, a heat pump in a house located in a colder region, drawing heat during the heating season from very cold outdoor air (down to -20°C (–4°F)), combined with a high heating demand due to poor insulation and the generally colder climate.
For heat pumps, highly efficient ground-source heat pumps that extract heat from the ground (+5°C (41°F)) are becoming increasingly attractive—especially since this year there is a subsidy of €4,500 for ground-source heat pumps with a calculated annual performance factor of at least 4.5, provided by BAFA.
There is a website on the topic of "heating system comparisons," created by an energy consultant named Alois Zimmermann, which compares the investment, operating, and maintenance costs of various heating systems using a sample calculation (with certain assumptions regarding house size, heating demand, and price increases). This site might be helpful for you.
Alternatively, you can hire an energy consultant to calculate the optimal heating option for your personal situation.
Best regards
jx7
PS: We are currently planning a single-family house in the warm Rhine Plain near Mainz with KfW-70 standard and a ground-source heat pump (deep drilling/geothermal).
I will quote the original post from the OP:
That really doesn’t leave many options left to even start a “debate.”
Kawafighter schrieb:
Since we don’t want gas/liquefied petroleum gas (gas isn’t even available in the street), oil, or pellets, we need an efficient and economical solution.
That really doesn’t leave many options left to even start a “debate.”
E
ErikErdgas12 Nov 2015 18:59Hello Michael,
In addition to the many good contributions so far, here are a few more notes:
- The installation of a controlled mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery is a very sensible measure, especially in new buildings, as it is highly energy-efficient and comparatively easy to implement.
- How is heat transfer planned: underfloor heating (throughout or only in certain areas) or radiators? Since a heat pump is essentially a given, you should aim for the lowest possible supply temperatures to ensure economical operation.
- How many people will be living in the house, and how can the hot water demand be estimated? The higher the hot water consumption, the less efficient the heat pump will operate.
- What type of storage tank is planned exactly, and how is its integration into the building services/electrical system supposed to be handled? Don’t forget to consider the losses that occur during the charging/discharging process and the operation of an electric storage tank.
In general, during the planning phase, I would recommend keeping options or alternatives open to allow better comparisons. Even if you are not a fan of pellets or liquid gas, discussions around these options might bring up arguments that could help with the overall planning of the property or increase your knowledge. One important argument remains the investment costs for the heating system. If savings can be made here, it may be possible to implement energy efficiency measures within a capped budget that might otherwise have been ignored.
Best regards, Erik
In addition to the many good contributions so far, here are a few more notes:
- The installation of a controlled mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery is a very sensible measure, especially in new buildings, as it is highly energy-efficient and comparatively easy to implement.
- How is heat transfer planned: underfloor heating (throughout or only in certain areas) or radiators? Since a heat pump is essentially a given, you should aim for the lowest possible supply temperatures to ensure economical operation.
- How many people will be living in the house, and how can the hot water demand be estimated? The higher the hot water consumption, the less efficient the heat pump will operate.
- What type of storage tank is planned exactly, and how is its integration into the building services/electrical system supposed to be handled? Don’t forget to consider the losses that occur during the charging/discharging process and the operation of an electric storage tank.
In general, during the planning phase, I would recommend keeping options or alternatives open to allow better comparisons. Even if you are not a fan of pellets or liquid gas, discussions around these options might bring up arguments that could help with the overall planning of the property or increase your knowledge. One important argument remains the investment costs for the heating system. If savings can be made here, it may be possible to implement energy efficiency measures within a capped budget that might otherwise have been ignored.
Best regards, Erik
Hi discussion partners,
I am currently facing a similar situation. A semi-detached house with about 150 sqm (1,615 sq ft), three floors plus a basement, new build in Fahrenzhausen (postal code 85777). There are three of us, all showering daily. So far, we have prioritized insulation—we aim for KfW 50 or better. The plot is approximately 340 sqm (3,660 sq ft), and the house footprint is around 65-70 sqm (700-750 sq ft) (still uncertain). There will be a double garage on the lot and about 40 sqm (430 sq ft) of paving, but it will be permeable for water infiltration. Now I have a few questions:
1) Controlled ventilation with heat recovery: What is particularly recommended here? I wasn’t aware there were so many different options.
2) We prefer a heat pump. I personally like the idea of a ground source heat pump, but my wife is concerned about the investment costs—and so far her intuition has been pretty reliable. So an air-source heat pump is also an option. Our builder suggests a unit from Nibe (unfortunately this specific model is not actually available—whatever exactly was proposed (Nibe Split air/water heat pump F2030 AMS 10-12)).
3) Does it make sense to use solar thermal as well?
4) Is it more practical to install photovoltaic panels to power the heat pump?
5) How large would a photovoltaic system need to be to fully supply the heat pump?
6) How large would a photovoltaic system need to be to also generate sufficient electricity for household use? The idea would be to move toward energy self-sufficiency.
At this stage, I’m not looking for exact figures, but rather an estimate of whether this is feasible and what the costs might be.
I am currently facing a similar situation. A semi-detached house with about 150 sqm (1,615 sq ft), three floors plus a basement, new build in Fahrenzhausen (postal code 85777). There are three of us, all showering daily. So far, we have prioritized insulation—we aim for KfW 50 or better. The plot is approximately 340 sqm (3,660 sq ft), and the house footprint is around 65-70 sqm (700-750 sq ft) (still uncertain). There will be a double garage on the lot and about 40 sqm (430 sq ft) of paving, but it will be permeable for water infiltration. Now I have a few questions:
1) Controlled ventilation with heat recovery: What is particularly recommended here? I wasn’t aware there were so many different options.
2) We prefer a heat pump. I personally like the idea of a ground source heat pump, but my wife is concerned about the investment costs—and so far her intuition has been pretty reliable. So an air-source heat pump is also an option. Our builder suggests a unit from Nibe (unfortunately this specific model is not actually available—whatever exactly was proposed (Nibe Split air/water heat pump F2030 AMS 10-12)).
3) Does it make sense to use solar thermal as well?
4) Is it more practical to install photovoltaic panels to power the heat pump?
5) How large would a photovoltaic system need to be to fully supply the heat pump?
6) How large would a photovoltaic system need to be to also generate sufficient electricity for household use? The idea would be to move toward energy self-sufficiency.
At this stage, I’m not looking for exact figures, but rather an estimate of whether this is feasible and what the costs might be.
N
nordanney16 Nov 2015 16:18Just a brief note about the photovoltaic system. It doesn’t work well in winter – right now at 4 p.m., the production drops to nearly zero because of the bad weather. But you’ll need electricity for the heat pump, which also applies at night.
So you’ll need an energy storage system – and that costs more than just pocket money.
The size of the photovoltaic system and the storage depends on your electricity consumption. 😉
We have a 7.x kWp system on our roof. In spring and autumn, we can use most of the electricity produced – depending on heating demand, and of course in the evenings and nights we sometimes have to buy electricity. In summer, most of the power is fed into the grid; in winter, most of it is purchased from the grid.
Personally, I’m not very convinced by solar thermal systems for hot water due to the reasons mentioned above – too much hot water is produced in summer, and too little in winter 🙁
So you’ll need an energy storage system – and that costs more than just pocket money.
The size of the photovoltaic system and the storage depends on your electricity consumption. 😉
We have a 7.x kWp system on our roof. In spring and autumn, we can use most of the electricity produced – depending on heating demand, and of course in the evenings and nights we sometimes have to buy electricity. In summer, most of the power is fed into the grid; in winter, most of it is purchased from the grid.
Personally, I’m not very convinced by solar thermal systems for hot water due to the reasons mentioned above – too much hot water is produced in summer, and too little in winter 🙁
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