Hello
We are currently considering how to finish the walls in our new build.
The interior and exterior walls are made of sand-lime bricks, and a few non-load-bearing walls are made of gypsum concrete.
We want to design the walls so that we can avoid settlement cracks for as long as possible. (These are unavoidable in new buildings.)
What options are available?
Applying a plaster finish on the walls
Paintable plaster, roller-applied plaster, or simply smoothing with a drywall finish to Q3/Q4 level and painting
Alternatively, wallpaper and painting
Non-woven wallpaper, non-woven "Raufaser" wallpaper, painter’s fleece
We want the walls to be either smooth or with a light to medium texture (we are still undecided)
It is important to us to avoid settlement cracks for as long as possible. Non-woven wallpapers are the better choice because they cover small cracks and will only tear if large cracks appear.
The application should be relatively easy to carry out by amateurs.
We plan to have the painter do the stairwell and ground floor.
We want to do the upper floor, attic, and basement ourselves because we don’t have enough budget to have the painter do everything.
What would you recommend?
What is the difference between painter’s fleece and non-woven Raufaser wallpaper?
Is the only difference that painter’s fleece is smooth and Raufaser has a texture?
Non-woven wallpapers are definitely preferable to normal paper wallpapers, right?
Thank you for your help
We are currently considering how to finish the walls in our new build.
The interior and exterior walls are made of sand-lime bricks, and a few non-load-bearing walls are made of gypsum concrete.
We want to design the walls so that we can avoid settlement cracks for as long as possible. (These are unavoidable in new buildings.)
What options are available?
Applying a plaster finish on the walls
Paintable plaster, roller-applied plaster, or simply smoothing with a drywall finish to Q3/Q4 level and painting
Alternatively, wallpaper and painting
Non-woven wallpaper, non-woven "Raufaser" wallpaper, painter’s fleece
We want the walls to be either smooth or with a light to medium texture (we are still undecided)
It is important to us to avoid settlement cracks for as long as possible. Non-woven wallpapers are the better choice because they cover small cracks and will only tear if large cracks appear.
The application should be relatively easy to carry out by amateurs.
We plan to have the painter do the stairwell and ground floor.
We want to do the upper floor, attic, and basement ourselves because we don’t have enough budget to have the painter do everything.
What would you recommend?
What is the difference between painter’s fleece and non-woven Raufaser wallpaper?
Is the only difference that painter’s fleece is smooth and Raufaser has a texture?
Non-woven wallpapers are definitely preferable to normal paper wallpapers, right?
Thank you for your help
G
Gooosee1599 Jan 2023 14:31How can I remove the fine dust from the wall after sanding before I start applying fleece wallpaper or begin painting directly?
A
Allthewayup9 Jan 2023 14:39xMisterDx schrieb:
Feel free to show me a new build without any settlement cracks.First of all, we need to distinguish between visible and invisible settlement as well as cracks caused by different material combinations. I do not dispute invisible settlements or cracks due to material combinations – as I mentioned before – but this thread is about visible cracks in solid masonry walls caused by settlement, and here I clearly say: that is not normal.
Please don’t take the following statement as an attack, but just because it’s outside your imagination or experience doesn’t mean it’s impossible to build without visible settlements or cracks.
I had to check with three acquaintances. I am happy to show you newly built houses in the postal code 85 area that show no visible settlement cracks and did not require reinforcing with fleece or surface laminates to achieve this. These houses were built within the last four years with professional planning and by specialized contractors under construction supervision.
If the builder follows the recommendations in the geotechnical report appropriately and shows proper craftsmanship, settlement cracks can be limited to an invisible level. And if visible cracks do appear, they are simply the result of insufficient planning, improper installation/use/processing of materials, or in short, “human error.” You cannot expect a builder to apply proper crack prevention measures if they don’t understand the ground on which they build your future. The common opinion therefore becomes: “Settlement cracks are perfectly normal.” It’s estimated that 55-65% don’t even commission a geotechnical report, and among those who do, too often someone on site simply files the document under “we’ve always done it that way” or doesn’t understand it and proceeds anyway. The result is what I call a widespread disease in construction.
In my opinion, it is almost shocking how the original poster here is led to believe that visible settlement cracks are to be expected – they are not.
You might be right that there is always some probability of settlement cracks occurring, but in my view only as a result of insufficient care during the planning and construction phases.
Here is a practical example of crack prevention:
In the ground floor, there is a large span of the precast concrete floor slab. To carry the load, a supporting beam (lintel) is required. For aesthetic reasons, an overhang beam is chosen. On the floor above, exactly at this point, there is a wall. That means a concrete column would protrude about 30cm (12 inches) above the concrete floor, and on top of that would be the perforated bricks for the wall. Rendering this spot will very likely cause cracking due to the material combination (details would go beyond the scope here). To avoid this, the necessary reinforcement in the concrete slab was mathematically determined and installed accordingly, resulting in a flush-overhang beam. That way there are no cracks visible above the screed level later, and no hassles like “how do I cover this up?”
*Edit:
Just now a fourth colleague (also an architect) joined in and said, “No visible settlement cracks since construction five years ago because I carefully thought through every step beforehand.”
X
xMisterDx9 Jan 2023 14:42Well... I advised against using fleece. Not only because of cost, effort, indoor climate, mold... but also because I want to observe how my house behaves during the first few years. If any cracks develop, I want to be able to see and assess them, even if the crack is harmless.
I’m not entirely convinced that heavy painter’s fleece will automatically tear if the crack becomes structurally critical.
I’m not entirely convinced that heavy painter’s fleece will automatically tear if the crack becomes structurally critical.
Of course, you are free to question my statements. But as I said, I have done it myself.
It’s less about skill and more about the fact that there are movement patterns involved that an average office worker simply doesn’t do. It’s about muscular endurance. I sanded our entire upper floor once with the drywall sander. That’s about 250m² (2,690 ft²), and I was exhausted afterward. The result was that I would have needed to go over it at least two more times, and there were marks and grooves everywhere that weren’t there before.
The same with the (then eccentric) sander took longer (but not by much, thanks to battery power), but the result was much more satisfactory. One pass was enough without causing additional damage.
It’s not about perfection but about achieving at least as good a result as the same non-professional using filler and sanding, but with much less effort.
Why do you expect perfection with painting fleece but not with filling and sanding? I claim that a complete beginner will get a better result with painting fleece than without, in both cases.
That’s not true. It’s often said, but I suspect that in those cases the surface wasn’t sanded or only a light painting fleece was used. We use 150g/m² (4.4 oz/ft²) fleece, and we sanded out all bumps and lumps. There were still grooves and dimples, but the heavy painting fleece covers those (just like settlement cracks).
Vacuum and wipe down with a damp cloth. Then you are supposed to prime the surface anyway, which will also remove some remaining dust.
It’s less about skill and more about the fact that there are movement patterns involved that an average office worker simply doesn’t do. It’s about muscular endurance. I sanded our entire upper floor once with the drywall sander. That’s about 250m² (2,690 ft²), and I was exhausted afterward. The result was that I would have needed to go over it at least two more times, and there were marks and grooves everywhere that weren’t there before.
The same with the (then eccentric) sander took longer (but not by much, thanks to battery power), but the result was much more satisfactory. One pass was enough without causing additional damage.
xMisterDx schrieb:
As a non-professional, you will never get painting fleece “perfect.” Especially not if you have to cut anywhere, around corners, or even outside corners.
It’s not about perfection but about achieving at least as good a result as the same non-professional using filler and sanding, but with much less effort.
Why do you expect perfection with painting fleece but not with filling and sanding? I claim that a complete beginner will get a better result with painting fleece than without, in both cases.
xMisterDx schrieb:
And especially painting fleece, which ultimately creates a Q4 finish, doesn’t forgive any mistakes? You see every little flaw all the more.
That’s not true. It’s often said, but I suspect that in those cases the surface wasn’t sanded or only a light painting fleece was used. We use 150g/m² (4.4 oz/ft²) fleece, and we sanded out all bumps and lumps. There were still grooves and dimples, but the heavy painting fleece covers those (just like settlement cracks).
Gooosee159 schrieb:
How do I remove the fine dust from sanding on the wall before I can apply fleece or start painting directly?
Vacuum and wipe down with a damp cloth. Then you are supposed to prime the surface anyway, which will also remove some remaining dust.
@Allthewayup At least from my side, I have always talked about compatible material combinations and argue that it is almost unavoidable. These don’t even have to be settlement cracks. Differences in thermal expansion coefficients alone can cause cracks on the surface. That’s why I also recommend using painting fleece. From a visual perspective, it turns visible cracks into invisible ones.
xMisterDx schrieb:
I’m not really convinced by that.You’re allowed to feel that way, after all, we have freedom of religion!Similar topics