ᐅ 200 m² duplex apartment in an existing building, almost fully customizable interior
Created on: 3 Mar 2021 15:55
M
misterNES
Hello dear forum community,
my wife and I are currently working with an interior designer to plan our future apartment in an existing townhouse. We are planning a maisonette with approximately 200 sqm (2,150 sq ft) of usable space plus a roof terrace. The design options are still very flexible. Currently, the floors are not yet connected (except for the main stairwell). The spaces were used commercially until recently; a few decades ago, they were residential units. There are only a few load-bearing walls. Apart from the exterior walls, we have a lot of freedom, and our interior designer has created an initial plan based on the latest building plans (of course, everything will be re-measured, floors opened up, checked by a structural engineer, etc.). Floors, ceilings, interior walls, heating, electrical, plumbing, and so on will all be newly installed. High ceilings (3.50 m (11.5 ft) in the basement, 3 m (9.8 ft) upstairs) also allow for some technical installations to be accommodated in (partly) suspended ceilings.
Restrictions/Requirements
- Townhouse from 1860, completely renovated at the end of the 1980s, including the addition of one floor (previously three, now four stories)
- The façade is under heritage protection, meaning no visible changes to the windows are allowed
- Total living space per floor approximately 300 sqm (3,230 sq ft)
- Size of the owner’s apartment: about 200 sqm (2,150 sq ft), divided over two floors of about 100 sqm (1,075 sq ft) each
- Adjacent living areas on both floors are either occupied by the owner’s family or currently vacant and being converted for rental
- Orientation: windows facing south and west
- To the north, the neighboring house is adjacent; the office and child’s room 1 window look onto an inner courtyard
Owner’s Requirements
- Floors: 2 floors (3rd and 4th floor in the building) plus an added roof terrace (not existing yet; planned conversion/extension of the attic above the 4th floor)
- Number of residents: 2 adults (+ 2 children planned)
- Age: 33, 34 years
- Rooms needed on lower floor: entrance/hall, wardrobe, office for two persons, open kitchen-dining-living area, backup kitchen/laundry room, library/playroom
- Rooms needed on upper floor: master bedroom, walk-in dressing room, master bathroom including fitness/wellness area, 2 children’s rooms, children’s bathroom, possibly laundry room (if not on lower floor), access to the roof terrace
- Office: both self-employed, full workplaces for two people
- Overnight guests per year: minimal or none planned
- Open architecture, open kitchen, freestanding island, freestanding staircase in living space
- Modern construction methods where possible in the existing building
- Number of dining seats: at least 8
- Fireplace: wood possible (existing chimney shaft), ethanol fireplace might be better/more flexible as a design element regarding location?
- Roof terrace: planned with the attic conversion above the upper floor
- Heating: underfloor heating (no problem on the lower floor due to high floor build-up, upper floor still to be checked, if necessary radiators/wall heating)
- Cooling: chilled ceiling (summer in the city center can get very hot and likely will get hotter in the future)
Floor Plan Draft
- Designed by the interior designer
- Likes: generous layout, plenty of storage but still not cramped
- Uncertainties: exact location of the roof terrace access (might mean giving up a separate laundry room)
- Price estimate from the interior designer: to follow shortly but not relevant yet
- Personal price limit for the apartment: no specific limit
Most Important/Fundamental Questions about the Floor Plan
- Have we overlooked anything in the floor plan?
- Should the living room area remain completely open or be partially separated by a room divider (maybe sufficiently structured by different ceiling heights in suspended ceilings)?
- Our idea is to forgo a traditional TV and install a projector and screen in a suspended ceiling – does anyone have experience with this?
- Is it better to have the laundry room upstairs or on the lower floor in the utility room?
- Is a controlled ventilation system worthwhile? Possibly decentralized in the bedrooms (on the upper floor this is possible since the façade is not heritage-protected there), but there is concern about street noise in the city center.
Thank you very much in advance!
Dominik
my wife and I are currently working with an interior designer to plan our future apartment in an existing townhouse. We are planning a maisonette with approximately 200 sqm (2,150 sq ft) of usable space plus a roof terrace. The design options are still very flexible. Currently, the floors are not yet connected (except for the main stairwell). The spaces were used commercially until recently; a few decades ago, they were residential units. There are only a few load-bearing walls. Apart from the exterior walls, we have a lot of freedom, and our interior designer has created an initial plan based on the latest building plans (of course, everything will be re-measured, floors opened up, checked by a structural engineer, etc.). Floors, ceilings, interior walls, heating, electrical, plumbing, and so on will all be newly installed. High ceilings (3.50 m (11.5 ft) in the basement, 3 m (9.8 ft) upstairs) also allow for some technical installations to be accommodated in (partly) suspended ceilings.
Restrictions/Requirements
- Townhouse from 1860, completely renovated at the end of the 1980s, including the addition of one floor (previously three, now four stories)
- The façade is under heritage protection, meaning no visible changes to the windows are allowed
- Total living space per floor approximately 300 sqm (3,230 sq ft)
- Size of the owner’s apartment: about 200 sqm (2,150 sq ft), divided over two floors of about 100 sqm (1,075 sq ft) each
- Adjacent living areas on both floors are either occupied by the owner’s family or currently vacant and being converted for rental
- Orientation: windows facing south and west
- To the north, the neighboring house is adjacent; the office and child’s room 1 window look onto an inner courtyard
Owner’s Requirements
- Floors: 2 floors (3rd and 4th floor in the building) plus an added roof terrace (not existing yet; planned conversion/extension of the attic above the 4th floor)
- Number of residents: 2 adults (+ 2 children planned)
- Age: 33, 34 years
- Rooms needed on lower floor: entrance/hall, wardrobe, office for two persons, open kitchen-dining-living area, backup kitchen/laundry room, library/playroom
- Rooms needed on upper floor: master bedroom, walk-in dressing room, master bathroom including fitness/wellness area, 2 children’s rooms, children’s bathroom, possibly laundry room (if not on lower floor), access to the roof terrace
- Office: both self-employed, full workplaces for two people
- Overnight guests per year: minimal or none planned
- Open architecture, open kitchen, freestanding island, freestanding staircase in living space
- Modern construction methods where possible in the existing building
- Number of dining seats: at least 8
- Fireplace: wood possible (existing chimney shaft), ethanol fireplace might be better/more flexible as a design element regarding location?
- Roof terrace: planned with the attic conversion above the upper floor
- Heating: underfloor heating (no problem on the lower floor due to high floor build-up, upper floor still to be checked, if necessary radiators/wall heating)
- Cooling: chilled ceiling (summer in the city center can get very hot and likely will get hotter in the future)
Floor Plan Draft
- Designed by the interior designer
- Likes: generous layout, plenty of storage but still not cramped
- Uncertainties: exact location of the roof terrace access (might mean giving up a separate laundry room)
- Price estimate from the interior designer: to follow shortly but not relevant yet
- Personal price limit for the apartment: no specific limit
Most Important/Fundamental Questions about the Floor Plan
- Have we overlooked anything in the floor plan?
- Should the living room area remain completely open or be partially separated by a room divider (maybe sufficiently structured by different ceiling heights in suspended ceilings)?
- Our idea is to forgo a traditional TV and install a projector and screen in a suspended ceiling – does anyone have experience with this?
- Is it better to have the laundry room upstairs or on the lower floor in the utility room?
- Is a controlled ventilation system worthwhile? Possibly decentralized in the bedrooms (on the upper floor this is possible since the façade is not heritage-protected there), but there is concern about street noise in the city center.
Thank you very much in advance!
Dominik
M
misterNES10 Mar 2021 16:12A brief update from my side after meeting with the interior architect this morning.
He thinks the redesign of the staircase and the upper floor is successful, although he somewhat misses the freestanding "showcase" staircase :p. However, the staircase planned by @ypg is not long enough to cover the large floor-to-ceiling height. As a reference, he mentioned the number of steps of the freestanding staircase, which was drawn to scale. Additionally, a staircase with more than 18 steps must include a landing (at least this is the regulation in Austria). He will come up with a solution and also check how much space would need to be reduced in the (backup) kitchen.
@icandoit thanks for your photos as well. It doesn’t really look like there is much natural light, but that probably depends on various other factors.
In the next two weeks, we will also visit the installer and take a close look at different options like chilled ceilings, wall heating, etc., in the showroom. An attic inspection is also planned, to explore the possibilities for the roof terrace (I am attaching a photo to show how it looks up there).
I’ll keep you updated, but since we’re not in a hurry with the renovation and don’t even know if it will take place this year or next (the architect advises the latter, to allow more time for planning/tendering, etc.), there may be a few days or even weeks between updates.
He thinks the redesign of the staircase and the upper floor is successful, although he somewhat misses the freestanding "showcase" staircase :p. However, the staircase planned by @ypg is not long enough to cover the large floor-to-ceiling height. As a reference, he mentioned the number of steps of the freestanding staircase, which was drawn to scale. Additionally, a staircase with more than 18 steps must include a landing (at least this is the regulation in Austria). He will come up with a solution and also check how much space would need to be reduced in the (backup) kitchen.
@icandoit thanks for your photos as well. It doesn’t really look like there is much natural light, but that probably depends on various other factors.
In the next two weeks, we will also visit the installer and take a close look at different options like chilled ceilings, wall heating, etc., in the showroom. An attic inspection is also planned, to explore the possibilities for the roof terrace (I am attaching a photo to show how it looks up there).
I’ll keep you updated, but since we’re not in a hurry with the renovation and don’t even know if it will take place this year or next (the architect advises the latter, to allow more time for planning/tendering, etc.), there may be a few days or even weeks between updates.
misterNES schrieb:
Also, a staircase with more than 18 steps must include a landing (at least that’s the regulation in AT) Oh, did I miss that until now?
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
misterNES schrieb:
However, the staircase planned by @ypg is not long enough to cover the large floor-to-ceiling height. Yes, I may have been a bit "imprecise." I enlarged an existing staircase... but the number of steps remains the same, so even a staircase to the moon would have only 15 steps with this program :p
misterNES schrieb:
As a reference, he mentioned the number of steps of the freestanding staircase, which was drawn to scale. misterNES schrieb:
Also, a staircase with more than 18 steps must include a landing (at least that’s the regulation in Austria). You mentioned a landing – I kind of "pushed the problem aside" by using the placeholder staircase. However, I didn’t add any notes and assumed that a landing could be inserted after 5 or 7 steps... By the way, my staircase is about 2.80 meters (9 feet 2 inches) deep, but I don’t remember the width.
I’m curious. If you keep us informed on how it will be implemented, we’ll be looking forward to it from now on 🙂
M
misterNES15 May 2021 10:32I’d like to share an update with you. For your information, we’re still at the rough planning stage (structural measures, etc.). The detailed planning (bathroom layout, etc.) will come later, and construction will only start next year.
I’ve attached the new floor plans and summarized the changes here:
Passenger Elevator
The biggest benefit is the direct connection from the kitchen to the roof terrace without long walking distances. Initially, I had planned only a dumbwaiter, but the space required for a (small) fully functional passenger elevator isn’t much larger, and with it, you can comfortably transport many things upstairs at once using, for example, a serving cart.
Other advantages: The roof terrace can also be used with limited mobility, and it provides an alternative route to the upper floor without having to go through the living area.
Staircase from Basement to Upper Floor
I have received many great suggestions from @ypg and others here, which I discussed in detail with my architect, who has been working on various options. Unfortunately, the (otherwise lovely) high ceiling complicates things. To overcome the floor height, 23 steps and a landing (required by regulations) are necessary. To position the staircase so you exit at a sensible point without compromising the floor plan (meaning on the interior side of the house, so that living spaces really have windows), the staircase placement is quite limited. We personally like a freestanding staircase in the dining-living area (underneath there would be space for a large fireplace), but it’s hard to say whether the potential “through traffic” would be bothersome. As mentioned before, the door to the stairwell on the upper floor can be “activated” anytime (especially useful during teenage years).
Size of the Children’s Bedrooms
It’s understandable that the comment was made that the children’s bedrooms are only 12 sqm (129 sq ft) in a house of this size. But considering that the future children will have their own playroom in the “library,” and there is enough storage for seasonal clothing, toys, etc., both within the apartment and in other parts of the house (attic, basement), are 12 sqm really too small? I myself grew up in a 12 sqm room in a 180 sqm (1,938 sq ft) apartment, but one shouldn’t always compare to one’s own experience.
And what would the alternative be? We are bound by the window locations (heritage protection), so either we give up the walk-in closet entirely to enlarge the children’s rooms, or I move everything around: children’s bedrooms go to the south, which reduces the size of the master area; the children’s bathroom is then quite far from the bedrooms; and the master bathroom somewhere in the west would be far from the plumbing connections (and the ceiling below would likely have to be lowered more due to the roof slope).
I’m really looking forward to your opinions on this point 😉
One more note: As part of our renovation, on the same floor as our basement, we will create two apartments totaling around 200 sqm (2,153 sq ft) for (short-term) rental. The smaller of the two apartments could be used as a “youth area” during the older children’s teenage years. Whether this partition is desired, of course, is another question.
Roof Terrace
This is probably the most complex (and expensive) part of the renovation in this existing building, but still manageable. A structural engineer has already looked into it and given approval. We now know that the ceiling of the upper floor is not self-supporting, but is suspended from the roof frame by large glued laminated timber beams. To build a roof terrace here, the (copper) roof must be opened and the ceiling removed; then steel beams are inserted into load-bearing outer and inner walls; afterwards, it’s closed up again (the ceiling is now load-bearing) and finally, the terrace structure is placed on top.
I apologize for my amateur wording, but I’m sure the attached plans will help you understand what I mean. The large load-bearing glued laminated beams cannot be completely removed because the roof structure over the adjacent apartment of my parents must not be altered. I’ve also attached a plan with a possible floor layout for the roof terrace marked in red, showing the maximum possible area.
Thanks in advance for your time — I’m looking forward to your responses! 🙂
I’ve attached the new floor plans and summarized the changes here:
- A passenger elevator has been integrated (see further considerations below)
- Access to the roof terrace now meets the actual requirements
- Children’s bedroom 2 is now on the west side, and the northern room has been changed to a fitness room with an adjacent children’s bathroom (based on an idea from @ypg)
- The walk-in closet and master bedroom have been swapped
Passenger Elevator
The biggest benefit is the direct connection from the kitchen to the roof terrace without long walking distances. Initially, I had planned only a dumbwaiter, but the space required for a (small) fully functional passenger elevator isn’t much larger, and with it, you can comfortably transport many things upstairs at once using, for example, a serving cart.
Other advantages: The roof terrace can also be used with limited mobility, and it provides an alternative route to the upper floor without having to go through the living area.
Staircase from Basement to Upper Floor
I have received many great suggestions from @ypg and others here, which I discussed in detail with my architect, who has been working on various options. Unfortunately, the (otherwise lovely) high ceiling complicates things. To overcome the floor height, 23 steps and a landing (required by regulations) are necessary. To position the staircase so you exit at a sensible point without compromising the floor plan (meaning on the interior side of the house, so that living spaces really have windows), the staircase placement is quite limited. We personally like a freestanding staircase in the dining-living area (underneath there would be space for a large fireplace), but it’s hard to say whether the potential “through traffic” would be bothersome. As mentioned before, the door to the stairwell on the upper floor can be “activated” anytime (especially useful during teenage years).
Size of the Children’s Bedrooms
It’s understandable that the comment was made that the children’s bedrooms are only 12 sqm (129 sq ft) in a house of this size. But considering that the future children will have their own playroom in the “library,” and there is enough storage for seasonal clothing, toys, etc., both within the apartment and in other parts of the house (attic, basement), are 12 sqm really too small? I myself grew up in a 12 sqm room in a 180 sqm (1,938 sq ft) apartment, but one shouldn’t always compare to one’s own experience.
And what would the alternative be? We are bound by the window locations (heritage protection), so either we give up the walk-in closet entirely to enlarge the children’s rooms, or I move everything around: children’s bedrooms go to the south, which reduces the size of the master area; the children’s bathroom is then quite far from the bedrooms; and the master bathroom somewhere in the west would be far from the plumbing connections (and the ceiling below would likely have to be lowered more due to the roof slope).
I’m really looking forward to your opinions on this point 😉
One more note: As part of our renovation, on the same floor as our basement, we will create two apartments totaling around 200 sqm (2,153 sq ft) for (short-term) rental. The smaller of the two apartments could be used as a “youth area” during the older children’s teenage years. Whether this partition is desired, of course, is another question.
Roof Terrace
This is probably the most complex (and expensive) part of the renovation in this existing building, but still manageable. A structural engineer has already looked into it and given approval. We now know that the ceiling of the upper floor is not self-supporting, but is suspended from the roof frame by large glued laminated timber beams. To build a roof terrace here, the (copper) roof must be opened and the ceiling removed; then steel beams are inserted into load-bearing outer and inner walls; afterwards, it’s closed up again (the ceiling is now load-bearing) and finally, the terrace structure is placed on top.
I apologize for my amateur wording, but I’m sure the attached plans will help you understand what I mean. The large load-bearing glued laminated beams cannot be completely removed because the roof structure over the adjacent apartment of my parents must not be altered. I’ve also attached a plan with a possible floor layout for the roof terrace marked in red, showing the maximum possible area.
Thanks in advance for your time — I’m looking forward to your responses! 🙂
H
hanghaus200016 May 2021 08:59Much better. But also significantly more expensive. What does the architect say about the costs for the loft and elevator?
Elevator shaft and stairs to the loft—what does the structural engineer say? How will the loads be transferred down?
Elevator shaft and stairs to the loft—what does the structural engineer say? How will the loads be transferred down?
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