ᐅ Architect’s Responsibilities Regarding KfW Funding Interest and Additional Matters
Created on: 13 Jul 2018 11:44
R
Ruhrgebiet23
Hello everyone,
We purchased a house in February this year. It’s a semi-detached house from the 1950s, generally in good, old condition. It quickly became clear to us that we wanted and were able to invest a significant amount of money (up to around 300,000,000 Euros) to have everything done “properly.” We found an architect through a distant acquaintance who accompanied us for the inspection in December.
The purchase was completed in February, and we hoped for a quick submission of the building permit / planning permission application — we intended to renovate everything (new heating system, pipes, insulation, windows, etc.) and extend the back. We already had a draft design, which was roughly adopted and, of course, detailed further. The architect informed us at the second meeting that he had a new employee who would be responsible for our project. We were a bit surprised but accepted it. Some mistakes have been made by him (e.g., compass directions on the building permit incorrectly shown — my husband noticed this before submission; errors concerning the development boundaries, which, however, were never acknowledged), but that is not the main point here.
The original architect quickly made it clear that he was rather skeptical about insulation. As a result, we also assumed that achieving low-energy house standards or similar would not be possible. However, we stated early on that we were very interested in a photovoltaic system for hot water.
The building permit / planning permission was submitted three months ago, and since then we have been waiting — no one is responsible for the delay (at least not the architect). Meanwhile, we have been constantly trying to discuss KfW (government) funding programs with the architects. Both say that adapting the house to be age-appropriate is easier to implement than energy-efficient renovation. Because we persistently asked, they have now admitted that funding measures for energy-efficient renovation are also possible. Regarding further information, they consistently refer us to a financial advisor, who can only tell us that loan terms there are generally better than at our regular bank. We have now brought in an energy consultant to assess what really makes sense for our property. She believes that insulation according to the Energy Saving Ordinance is quite reasonable and not much more expensive. She met with the architects earlier this week.
We have already asked the architects several times to prepare a detailed cost breakdown — so far, we only have a rough estimate from 02/2018. But in order to decide what kind of funding might be suitable FOR US, we need comparable figures. Is that really too much to ask? What can we reasonably expect from the architect? He is contracted for all phases of the project.
We feel that the architects simply want to keep the planning effort as low as possible. We have to raise many issues multiple times before they are considered. For example, we asked for a drywall partition wall to the neighbor to be planned. At the last meeting, we were asked to finalize the kitchen plan as soon as possible. When we finally got the dimensions, we asked again if the drywall partition had been included. It had not. This has been repeated with many things so far, where we as laypeople have to remind them constantly. We certainly will not be able to think of everything... The new architect independently handles the exterior design of the entrance area — when we point out efflorescence in the basement, he replies that he can look into it during construction. We are laypeople, but their priorities don’t seem very logical to us...
Maybe I’m mistaken, so I would appreciate your assessments.
Best regards!
We purchased a house in February this year. It’s a semi-detached house from the 1950s, generally in good, old condition. It quickly became clear to us that we wanted and were able to invest a significant amount of money (up to around 300,000,000 Euros) to have everything done “properly.” We found an architect through a distant acquaintance who accompanied us for the inspection in December.
The purchase was completed in February, and we hoped for a quick submission of the building permit / planning permission application — we intended to renovate everything (new heating system, pipes, insulation, windows, etc.) and extend the back. We already had a draft design, which was roughly adopted and, of course, detailed further. The architect informed us at the second meeting that he had a new employee who would be responsible for our project. We were a bit surprised but accepted it. Some mistakes have been made by him (e.g., compass directions on the building permit incorrectly shown — my husband noticed this before submission; errors concerning the development boundaries, which, however, were never acknowledged), but that is not the main point here.
The original architect quickly made it clear that he was rather skeptical about insulation. As a result, we also assumed that achieving low-energy house standards or similar would not be possible. However, we stated early on that we were very interested in a photovoltaic system for hot water.
The building permit / planning permission was submitted three months ago, and since then we have been waiting — no one is responsible for the delay (at least not the architect). Meanwhile, we have been constantly trying to discuss KfW (government) funding programs with the architects. Both say that adapting the house to be age-appropriate is easier to implement than energy-efficient renovation. Because we persistently asked, they have now admitted that funding measures for energy-efficient renovation are also possible. Regarding further information, they consistently refer us to a financial advisor, who can only tell us that loan terms there are generally better than at our regular bank. We have now brought in an energy consultant to assess what really makes sense for our property. She believes that insulation according to the Energy Saving Ordinance is quite reasonable and not much more expensive. She met with the architects earlier this week.
We have already asked the architects several times to prepare a detailed cost breakdown — so far, we only have a rough estimate from 02/2018. But in order to decide what kind of funding might be suitable FOR US, we need comparable figures. Is that really too much to ask? What can we reasonably expect from the architect? He is contracted for all phases of the project.
We feel that the architects simply want to keep the planning effort as low as possible. We have to raise many issues multiple times before they are considered. For example, we asked for a drywall partition wall to the neighbor to be planned. At the last meeting, we were asked to finalize the kitchen plan as soon as possible. When we finally got the dimensions, we asked again if the drywall partition had been included. It had not. This has been repeated with many things so far, where we as laypeople have to remind them constantly. We certainly will not be able to think of everything... The new architect independently handles the exterior design of the entrance area — when we point out efflorescence in the basement, he replies that he can look into it during construction. We are laypeople, but their priorities don’t seem very logical to us...
Maybe I’m mistaken, so I would appreciate your assessments.
Best regards!
I completely understand where you're coming from, as I’ve been through the same experience. As a (inexperienced) homeowner, you tend to have a somewhat idealized view of architects, probably influenced a lot by the media (articles, documentaries, etc.). In reality, the chance of getting one of those top-tier architects is extremely low, or for the average builder, practically non-existent.
Keep in mind that an architect who fits that ideal and is actually willing to take on your project would charge a fee starting around €60,000 (and likely would need to). Sure, even €20,000 is a lot of money, but essentially you can be satisfied if the construction planning is usable and the site supervision is done properly. Having a constant contact person for all the (annoying) questions is a bonus.
The current frustration with costs seems almost inevitable to me. There is building activity happening everywhere, tradespeople are booked out months in advance, and construction prices are soaring accordingly. It’s basically impossible to calculate costs reliably right now. Of course, it makes you upset, but in the end, a precise calculation beforehand wouldn’t have changed your budget, would it? So the real question is whether it’s really critical, for example, to have the garages painted in advance, or if it can be accepted to realize later that there isn’t enough money for it.
If I were you, I would already be seriously thinking about possible cuts or alternatives. Does the house really need external thermal insulation (ETICS / external wall insulation system) if the plaster is in such poor condition? Do you really need tiles worth €8,000, or could you put down vinyl or something similar in the kitchen and bathrooms? Is your current driveway non-existent or in such bad shape that it needs repaving? Do I really need a double garage for my quality of life, and if so, does it have to be ready by move-in?
I’ve always found it very helpful to question things Marie Kondo style with “Does this truly make me happy?” And suddenly, a KFW55 energy standard house becomes a 115 standard, the ground-source heat pump turns into a gas boiler, the stainless steel pipes are replaced with plastic, KNX home automation is simplified to basic switches, the second shower goes on hold until the kids are older, the parquet flooring with a 3mm wear layer won’t impress my grandchildren anyway, the exterior plaster is patched up and any cracks are covered with ivy or vines instead of a curtain wall, the interior plaster is camouflaged with painter’s fabric, the cars stay out in the rain, the uneven driveway gets spruced up with a pressure washer, and I treat myself to an airless paint sprayer for a few hundred euros and paint it myself.
In the end, you can easily have 30% less debt and not live noticeably worse. Keep it simple!
Keep in mind that an architect who fits that ideal and is actually willing to take on your project would charge a fee starting around €60,000 (and likely would need to). Sure, even €20,000 is a lot of money, but essentially you can be satisfied if the construction planning is usable and the site supervision is done properly. Having a constant contact person for all the (annoying) questions is a bonus.
The current frustration with costs seems almost inevitable to me. There is building activity happening everywhere, tradespeople are booked out months in advance, and construction prices are soaring accordingly. It’s basically impossible to calculate costs reliably right now. Of course, it makes you upset, but in the end, a precise calculation beforehand wouldn’t have changed your budget, would it? So the real question is whether it’s really critical, for example, to have the garages painted in advance, or if it can be accepted to realize later that there isn’t enough money for it.
If I were you, I would already be seriously thinking about possible cuts or alternatives. Does the house really need external thermal insulation (ETICS / external wall insulation system) if the plaster is in such poor condition? Do you really need tiles worth €8,000, or could you put down vinyl or something similar in the kitchen and bathrooms? Is your current driveway non-existent or in such bad shape that it needs repaving? Do I really need a double garage for my quality of life, and if so, does it have to be ready by move-in?
I’ve always found it very helpful to question things Marie Kondo style with “Does this truly make me happy?” And suddenly, a KFW55 energy standard house becomes a 115 standard, the ground-source heat pump turns into a gas boiler, the stainless steel pipes are replaced with plastic, KNX home automation is simplified to basic switches, the second shower goes on hold until the kids are older, the parquet flooring with a 3mm wear layer won’t impress my grandchildren anyway, the exterior plaster is patched up and any cracks are covered with ivy or vines instead of a curtain wall, the interior plaster is camouflaged with painter’s fabric, the cars stay out in the rain, the uneven driveway gets spruced up with a pressure washer, and I treat myself to an airless paint sprayer for a few hundred euros and paint it myself.
In the end, you can easily have 30% less debt and not live noticeably worse. Keep it simple!
H
HilfeHilfe27 Jan 2019 20:21Here you can clearly see how naive the teacher appears.
Wow, you really couldn’t lose your money any faster.
Oh wait, it’s the bank...
Wow, you really couldn’t lose your money any faster.
Oh wait, it’s the bank...
I just see an arrogant banker here talking nonsense. Where exactly did she "sink" money? The cost estimate doesn’t match the final account – what a strange isolated case.
That would never happen to you as a tough deal-maker... but if I remember correctly, you only bought a condominium.
That would never happen to you as a tough deal-maker... but if I remember correctly, you only bought a condominium.
R
Ruhrgebiet2328 Jan 2019 15:24I’ll skip any comments on the Help section.
Dr. Hix, thank you for your response.
In fact, with a more realistic plan, we would have planned differently. While waiting for the building permit / planning permission, we developed alternatives that included a single-story extension and the children’s room located on the ground floor. So there were options available.
The young architect just informed us by email that he had notified the shell construction company that he “would inform us early about any change orders or significantly differing quantities.” This means the architect was not informed either. Is the shell contractor allowed to do this when the excavation cost rises from 5,000 euros to 15,000 euros (from the planned 34 cubic meters (1,200 cubic feet) of excavation to almost 100 cubic meters (3,530 cubic feet)) and then simply sends us the container removal receipts (not invoices!) along with their own invoice?
Dr. Hix, thank you for your response.
In fact, with a more realistic plan, we would have planned differently. While waiting for the building permit / planning permission, we developed alternatives that included a single-story extension and the children’s room located on the ground floor. So there were options available.
The young architect just informed us by email that he had notified the shell construction company that he “would inform us early about any change orders or significantly differing quantities.” This means the architect was not informed either. Is the shell contractor allowed to do this when the excavation cost rises from 5,000 euros to 15,000 euros (from the planned 34 cubic meters (1,200 cubic feet) of excavation to almost 100 cubic meters (3,530 cubic feet)) and then simply sends us the container removal receipts (not invoices!) along with their own invoice?
R
Ruhrgebiet2328 Jan 2019 15:30One more thing regarding HilfeHilfe: The bank’s funds will only be used after 60% of the equity (based on the total amount of the property and renovation costs) has been spent. And especially when you have saved so much over the years, you still don’t want to “waste” that money – and with all due openness to criticism, I don’t see us as being overindebted.
Ruhrgebiet23 schrieb:
I’ll skip any comment on Zu HilfeHilfe.
Dr. Hix, thank you for your reply.
In fact, with a more realistic plan, we would have planned differently. While waiting for the building permit / planning permission, we developed alternatives that included a single-story extension and relocating the children’s room to the ground floor. So there were definitely options.
The young architect just informed us by email that he told the shell construction company that he “would inform us early about any change orders or significantly different quantities.” That means even the architect was not informed. Is the shell builder allowed to just do that if the excavation cost rises from 5,000 euros to 15,000 euros (from the planned 34 cubic meters to almost 100 cubic meters) and then simply sends us the container pickup receipts (not invoices!) along with his invoice? Again, you’re arguing over a minor 66 cubic meters. That’s nothing in house construction. The excavator driver just needs to dig 30 cm (12 inches) deeper due to poor soil, and you’ve got your extra 66 cubic meters.
The problem lies where both the architect and you did not object to the container included in the offer.
It’s like taking a cruise with MSC Deutschland through the Caribbean and only booking the 100MB Wi-Fi package for 70 euros. When your phone starts downloading updates, you’ll get a bill for several thousand euros beyond that.
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