ᐅ Making Sensible Improvements to Existing Satellite/Cable Installations
Created on: 12 Jan 2021 23:47
R
RAL5018
This is the situation I found:
The old cable connection is no longer in use. The wiring ran from the main distribution point (MDP) up to the attic and from there, through a splitter, down to several rooms. The cables and outlets still mostly exist but are no longer connected.
Then a satellite system (quad LNB) was installed, and new cables were run. These cables are embedded in the walls without outlets in the rooms; they just protrude from the walls.
I am currently renovating and want to optimize this setup. I want to keep the satellite connection for now but also keep the option open to switch to cable TV later. Since it’s not easy to lead the satellite cables up to the attic and redistribute them from there (which would probably have been the best solution from the start, I guess), and the new satellite cables are already partially installed at low cost, I would simply install drop outlets (?) there. So far, so good. Or are there good reasons not to install any outlets at all?
If I have 1-2 free connections on the LNB and the cable runs close to the old distribution, I could connect a device to one of the old cable outlets by running a cable via some kind of outlet up to the attic, right? Would I need to modify the outlets in any way, or would that just work?
Can I also route the satellite cable in a room (where it’s not really needed) via a pass-through outlet (?) up to the attic and then star-connect 1-2 more outlets so that only one of them is used at a time? So only one device would ever be plugged in? Or is the mere presence of splitters/pass-through outlets without devices an issue?
Can I even use the same type of distribution for satellite and cable TV? (I understand that cable TV allows multiple devices to operate on a star splitter, while a star wiring with a quad LNB only allows one device to be used at a time.)
I hope it’s clear what I want? I’ll try to describe it differently. I imagine connecting a cable from the LNB to an outlet (pass-through?), and from there another cable running up to the attic (where the cable signal originally came from). The cable upstairs is currently not connected. I would like to connect this to another former cable outlet to be able to use either one or the other outlet.
Also, I still have the option to unplug the LNB and switch back to cable from the other side. Then the cable would probably have to be disconnected directly at the outlet or a terminating resistor would need to be added at the LNB? That’s okay… At this stage, I mainly want to arrange the outlets and cables so that I can easily feed one of the old outlets with one of the remaining LNB channels. Switching upstairs in the attic is not a problem, but of course, it would be nicer if it could work without that.
The old cable connection is no longer in use. The wiring ran from the main distribution point (MDP) up to the attic and from there, through a splitter, down to several rooms. The cables and outlets still mostly exist but are no longer connected.
Then a satellite system (quad LNB) was installed, and new cables were run. These cables are embedded in the walls without outlets in the rooms; they just protrude from the walls.
I am currently renovating and want to optimize this setup. I want to keep the satellite connection for now but also keep the option open to switch to cable TV later. Since it’s not easy to lead the satellite cables up to the attic and redistribute them from there (which would probably have been the best solution from the start, I guess), and the new satellite cables are already partially installed at low cost, I would simply install drop outlets (?) there. So far, so good. Or are there good reasons not to install any outlets at all?
If I have 1-2 free connections on the LNB and the cable runs close to the old distribution, I could connect a device to one of the old cable outlets by running a cable via some kind of outlet up to the attic, right? Would I need to modify the outlets in any way, or would that just work?
Can I also route the satellite cable in a room (where it’s not really needed) via a pass-through outlet (?) up to the attic and then star-connect 1-2 more outlets so that only one of them is used at a time? So only one device would ever be plugged in? Or is the mere presence of splitters/pass-through outlets without devices an issue?
Can I even use the same type of distribution for satellite and cable TV? (I understand that cable TV allows multiple devices to operate on a star splitter, while a star wiring with a quad LNB only allows one device to be used at a time.)
I hope it’s clear what I want? I’ll try to describe it differently. I imagine connecting a cable from the LNB to an outlet (pass-through?), and from there another cable running up to the attic (where the cable signal originally came from). The cable upstairs is currently not connected. I would like to connect this to another former cable outlet to be able to use either one or the other outlet.
Also, I still have the option to unplug the LNB and switch back to cable from the other side. Then the cable would probably have to be disconnected directly at the outlet or a terminating resistor would need to be added at the LNB? That’s okay… At this stage, I mainly want to arrange the outlets and cables so that I can easily feed one of the old outlets with one of the remaining LNB channels. Switching upstairs in the attic is not a problem, but of course, it would be nicer if it could work without that.
Welcome to the forum @*Dipol*. It’s great to read such detailed and technically sound answers right from the start 🙂
I fully agree with the comment on the sketch 100%.
However, here comes the but: I think the normal signal level and so on is initially completely irrelevant. I suggest a very pragmatic approach by simply testing it with just one TV first. That way, you can see if the wiring is still usable, and then you can consider options for multiple TVs. (How many TVs do you actually want to operate at the same time? The trend is moving towards streaming and similar technologies, but that is a different topic).
After the first fixed test, of course, make sure to properly carry out the safety-relevant grounding. This is an important issue—you must not neglect or shortcut it!
I fully agree with the comment on the sketch 100%.
However, here comes the but: I think the normal signal level and so on is initially completely irrelevant. I suggest a very pragmatic approach by simply testing it with just one TV first. That way, you can see if the wiring is still usable, and then you can consider options for multiple TVs. (How many TVs do you actually want to operate at the same time? The trend is moving towards streaming and similar technologies, but that is a different topic).
After the first fixed test, of course, make sure to properly carry out the safety-relevant grounding. This is an important issue—you must not neglect or shortcut it!
Tassimat schrieb:
Welcome to the forum @*Dipol*. It’s great to see such detailed and technically sound answers right from the start 🙂 Thank you, @Tassimat, for the welcome, but this isn’t really my first post.
Under the username @Dipol, I had habitually linked to a standard, which led to my exclusion. After a long break, I have now shared my input again, while strictly observing the forum rules.
*Dipol* schrieb:
During a renovation, it shouldn’t be an unsolvable problem to install a high-shield coaxial cable of Class A+ between HÜP -> 1st grounding block -> house connection amplifier -> 4-way splitter/distributor -> 2nd grounding block, and to connect the entire setup with at least 2.5 mm² Cu (when installed in a protected way) or at least 4 mm² Cu (unprotected) to the main grounding busbar of the mandatory protective equipotential bonding found in every older building. I have not seen grounding blocks myself. I have the old invoice for the installation of the satellite system, but it does not mention anything about that. Since we start at the HÜP, it is about the cable provider connection, right? The situation is that the house connection outlet is located on the ground floor. Whether or how it is grounded, I think, is the responsibility of the cable network operator. The amplifiers/splitters are still mounted in the attic but are no longer connected. Between the HÜP and the splitter, there is an old coaxial cable partly embedded in plaster and partly running in an empty conduit (disconnected at both ends). Pulling a new cable there would indeed involve considerable effort. If that is necessary, I would prefer to avoid it.
My main concern was just to clarify whether I need to cover the old sockets with plaster because they are no longer usable anyway (of course, I would not fully fill them in, but it makes no sense to replace them with new satellite sockets during the renovation if I can’t use them anyway) or what I would have to install there to still use the old cables for an internal distribution.
Speaking of grounding... I just remembered something: I was wondering why a coaxial cable was routed into the house connection box (which is a different one; it does not contain the cable provider connection or any satellite cable). Could that be for grounding purposes?
Sorry about the sketch... I’m not good at drawing and wouldn’t have thought a sketch was needed. What search terms should I use on Google to find an example of how something like this could look? Linking is not allowed here.
Now I know that the entire system is probably not up to current standards, but I still do not know if or how I can distribute my satellite signal through the house wiring. I think we can leave the cable provider connection aside for now — it is currently not in use anyway.
Tassimat schrieb:
Here comes the catch: I think the standard volume level and so on don’t really matter at this point. I suggest trying it out in a very practical way—but only for one TV at first. This way, you can see if the wiring is still usable, and then you can consider adding more TVs. (How many TVs do you actually want to run simultaneously? The trend is moving toward streaming and such, but that’s a different topic.) Usually just one. The house is large, so one might consider having a second device in 2 to 3 other locations.
I’d like to do the test, but I’d first have to get some connectors or something similar and also bring an awkward device to the construction site (I don’t have a compact secondary device available).
I didn’t realize it was such a complex issue... I just wanted to avoid building some adventurous setup under the motto “young scientist,” which any professional would immediately dismiss as pointless. I first tried to research how the wiring is done myself, but I couldn’t make sense of it.
RAL5018 schrieb:
The situation is that the main connection box is located on the ground floor. Whether or how it is grounded, I think that’s the responsibility of the cable network operator? Cable Network Operators are responsible for network level 3, which ends at the main utility point. Property owners or network operators are responsible for the internal building network level 4 and the mandatory protective equipotential bonding for each building.
After the standard clarification, typical ignorance from a layperson cannot be used as an excuse for missing equipotential bonding and grounding.
RAL5018 schrieb:
I only wanted to clarify whether I need to plaster over the old outlet boxes because they are no longer usable anyway (of course, I wouldn’t fully cover them with plaster, but it doesn’t make sense to install a new satellite outlet as part of renewing the boxes if I can’t use it anyway) or what I need to install there to continue using the old cables for internal distribution. Sorry, but I see no connection to the previous comments nor do I understand what you actually want to do.
RAL5018 schrieb:
Speaking of grounding... One more thing came to mind: I have wondered why a coaxial cable is routed into the main connection box (this is a different box; neither the cable TV connection nor a satellite cable is there)... could that be for grounding? Your trust in my clairvoyant abilities flatters me, but I’m just an antenna professional.
RAL5018 schrieb:
You’re not allowed to post links here anyway. Exactly!
Despite moderate appreciation from moderator @Mycraft, I was banned by the forum moderators because I apparently habitually linked a standard under the nickname @Dipol (to this day I don’t know exactly why).
Uploading sketches or photos as attachments, however, is permitted.
RAL5018 schrieb:
Now I know that the entire system is probably not up to standard, but I still don’t know if or how I can transmit my satellite signal over the house wiring. Everything regarding grounding and equipotential bonding for satellite antennas that require grounding or are exempt from grounding has already been explained. Below is an example image showing how a cable TV connection with star wiring can be incorporated into the equipotential bonding system. More details once I can finally understand from clear photos what you actually intend to do.
*Dipol* schrieb:
Sorry, but I can’t see any connection to the previous comments, nor do I understand what you actually want to do.
[...]
Your confidence in my clairvoyant skills flatters me, but I’m just an antenna expert.
[...]
Uploading sketches or photos as attachments is allowed, though. Okay, got it. I’ve now tried to draw it out. The green lines are the newly installed coax cables for the satellite system. The blue ones are the old cables. The red dots indicate where a connection exists, meaning the cable is connected there. Everything else is just hanging loose. The circles represent outlets.
My question is whether and how I can connect a green cable to the blue distribution.
Bonus question: Could I then disconnect the LNB and connect the cable TV (BK) without installing new outlets or a major rewiring?
Sorry that it was unclear before. I hope it’s explained clearly now.
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