ᐅ Building a Pool at the Same Time as the House - Your Opinions?
Created on: 16 May 2021 10:53
M
majuhenema
Dear community,
Since December 2020, we have been planning our house and reached an agreement with a provider in April. See:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/erste-grundrissplanung-auf-karopapier-hang-keller-2-geschosse.37567/
During the planning, the topic of a pool was always in the back of our minds and was discussed several times. Our initial feeling was "let’s build it right away," which over weeks and months shifted to "preparation now and realization later" for the time being. Now our direction is changing again, and we are researching construction and maintenance costs. Since it is difficult to assess the reliability of the various sources, or they do not align with our idea, we would very much appreciate feedback from the community here.
We are looking at a pool size of 8 x 4 meters (26 x 13 feet) without a counter-current system but with an electric cover. We are not entirely sure about pool heating. The technical room is located in the basement near where the pool will be installed.
We keep telling ourselves that building the pool now would be much cheaper because pool and house work could run in parallel, creating synergy effects (economic and legal aspects included 😉 ) regarding earthworks, foundation, crane use, and technology.
Our questions are:
1. In general: What do you consider to be the best type of pool for our project? We know the pros and cons of various types but cannot come to a final conclusion.
2. How much would you estimate the pure construction costs of your “preferred option” under the above conditions?
3. How large do you estimate the price difference between “building now” and “doing it in xx years” to be?
Thank you. 🙂
Since December 2020, we have been planning our house and reached an agreement with a provider in April. See:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/erste-grundrissplanung-auf-karopapier-hang-keller-2-geschosse.37567/
During the planning, the topic of a pool was always in the back of our minds and was discussed several times. Our initial feeling was "let’s build it right away," which over weeks and months shifted to "preparation now and realization later" for the time being. Now our direction is changing again, and we are researching construction and maintenance costs. Since it is difficult to assess the reliability of the various sources, or they do not align with our idea, we would very much appreciate feedback from the community here.
We are looking at a pool size of 8 x 4 meters (26 x 13 feet) without a counter-current system but with an electric cover. We are not entirely sure about pool heating. The technical room is located in the basement near where the pool will be installed.
We keep telling ourselves that building the pool now would be much cheaper because pool and house work could run in parallel, creating synergy effects (economic and legal aspects included 😉 ) regarding earthworks, foundation, crane use, and technology.
Our questions are:
1. In general: What do you consider to be the best type of pool for our project? We know the pros and cons of various types but cannot come to a final conclusion.
2. How much would you estimate the pure construction costs of your “preferred option” under the above conditions?
3. How large do you estimate the price difference between “building now” and “doing it in xx years” to be?
Thank you. 🙂
M
majuhenema2 Aug 2021 19:14Today, we received the first of three quotes. This one is for the PP version. We requested two price calculations: a smaller version measuring 6.7 x 3.3 x 1.5 meters (22 x 11 x 5 feet) and a larger version at 9 x 3.7 x 1.5 meters (30 x 12 x 5 feet). Both are deliberate choices, with a "medium version" falling in between. Some items are obviously the same, with price differences mainly for the pool, seating bench, underwater lights, and the recessed roller cover.
The offer includes the pool shell, twin-wall polycarbonate sheets behind it (for stability and insulation), a non-continuous staircase at one end, a seating bench at the opposite end, PVC recessed roller cover, technical package (filter tank, pump, measuring and control unit, UV-C disinfection), four inlet nozzles, bypass, one or two LED underwater spotlights, piping, and delivery up to the curb.
Missing are: heat exchanger or heat pump, electrical installation, crane, foundation, and concrete.
In total, the smaller version with VAT amounts to 43,870 euros and the larger to 50,417 euros.
My questions:
1. What do you think about the price-performance ratio?
2. How important are the twin-wall polycarbonate sheets behind the PP walls? They cost 4,000 and 4,900 euros respectively.
3. Our contact person could not clearly say whether a heat pump is required or if a heat exchanger is sufficient. It depends on the final pool size. I have no knowledge here. Could you clarify this for me? What is the typical price range for a heat exchanger or heat pump? Photovoltaic panels will be installed on the roof.
4. What price range would you estimate for a) excavating and constructing the concrete foundation, b) crane rental, and c) backfilling concrete if the pool is built concurrently with the house?
The offer includes the pool shell, twin-wall polycarbonate sheets behind it (for stability and insulation), a non-continuous staircase at one end, a seating bench at the opposite end, PVC recessed roller cover, technical package (filter tank, pump, measuring and control unit, UV-C disinfection), four inlet nozzles, bypass, one or two LED underwater spotlights, piping, and delivery up to the curb.
Missing are: heat exchanger or heat pump, electrical installation, crane, foundation, and concrete.
In total, the smaller version with VAT amounts to 43,870 euros and the larger to 50,417 euros.
My questions:
1. What do you think about the price-performance ratio?
2. How important are the twin-wall polycarbonate sheets behind the PP walls? They cost 4,000 and 4,900 euros respectively.
3. Our contact person could not clearly say whether a heat pump is required or if a heat exchanger is sufficient. It depends on the final pool size. I have no knowledge here. Could you clarify this for me? What is the typical price range for a heat exchanger or heat pump? Photovoltaic panels will be installed on the roof.
4. What price range would you estimate for a) excavating and constructing the concrete foundation, b) crane rental, and c) backfilling concrete if the pool is built concurrently with the house?
1. Without more detailed technical information, it’s difficult to assess properly. I would not recommend PVC roller blinds. Polycarbonate is better, ideally with a solar coating. The price is probably not entirely unrealistic.
2. Important due to planning permission / building permit. Stability and insulation are required.
3. I already mentioned how much heating power you need. At least half the pool volume in heating capacity. You probably don’t have that available, especially if the house is heated by a heat pump. Whether you use a heat pump or a heat exchanger connected to the primary heating system doesn’t depend on the pool size. How large is the photovoltaic system? I think you are underestimating the required heating capacity and energy. We are talking about 20 kW heating power or more. If the contact person has no knowledge about heating, that would make me very suspicious (or they would be immediately disqualified). A heat pump for this size costs around €7,500 plus installation.
4. It depends on the ground, whether it needs to be removed or not… Costs for installation of electricity, water, sewage, and controls will also apply.
2. Important due to planning permission / building permit. Stability and insulation are required.
3. I already mentioned how much heating power you need. At least half the pool volume in heating capacity. You probably don’t have that available, especially if the house is heated by a heat pump. Whether you use a heat pump or a heat exchanger connected to the primary heating system doesn’t depend on the pool size. How large is the photovoltaic system? I think you are underestimating the required heating capacity and energy. We are talking about 20 kW heating power or more. If the contact person has no knowledge about heating, that would make me very suspicious (or they would be immediately disqualified). A heat pump for this size costs around €7,500 plus installation.
4. It depends on the ground, whether it needs to be removed or not… Costs for installation of electricity, water, sewage, and controls will also apply.
M
majuhenema5 Aug 2021 22:13Today we had our second consultation and the first one with a fiberglass pool builder. The summary upfront: It was much more detailed, went significantly deeper, and was therefore a big difference compared to the first consultation. He presented us with an alternative, gave a recommendation, and then accepted our decision. He was either a very good salesperson or the vibe just fit. Probably a mix of both.
Here are the key details:
- Fiberglass Riviera pool shell Ancona D-Line measuring 6.5 x 3.2 x 1.5 m (21.3 x 10.5 x 4.9 ft)
- Full inverter heat pump technology with paddle switch (?), outdoor unit approx. 70 x 70 x 120 cm (27.6 x 27.6 x 47.2 in), intake from three sides
- Fully automatic measurement-controlled dosing with multi-layer filter grain using AFM
- Manual dirt filter cleaning (?)
- Polypropylene solar underground roller cover
- Declined the approx. €6000 (approx. $) counter-current system (although I enjoyed swimming a lot during my sports studies, but you have to make some compromises)
It was very practical that he had installed exactly the same pool with polypropylene solar underground roller cover in our preferred roller and pool color privately. He invited us to visit it after the consultation, so we are now very clear about the color choice of the pool, the PP roller cover, and the pool size.
My new questions:
1. He asked us about our preferred water temperature. We said 26°C (79°F). Is that a sensible temperature for an all-in-one pool?
2. Suggested option: Save on the heat pump and instead install a larger heater. What do you think about that?
3. Doesn’t the KfW subsidy depend on that?
4. He gave us a long explanation about quartz sand filter media versus AFM. What do you think about that?
Additional info:
Our photovoltaic system is planned to cover the entire roof. We are undecided about storage and currently leaning towards not getting one.
Ricky, even though this is mostly a dialogue between us here, I really appreciate your input and look forward to more comments from other users.
Here are the key details:
- Fiberglass Riviera pool shell Ancona D-Line measuring 6.5 x 3.2 x 1.5 m (21.3 x 10.5 x 4.9 ft)
- Full inverter heat pump technology with paddle switch (?), outdoor unit approx. 70 x 70 x 120 cm (27.6 x 27.6 x 47.2 in), intake from three sides
- Fully automatic measurement-controlled dosing with multi-layer filter grain using AFM
- Manual dirt filter cleaning (?)
- Polypropylene solar underground roller cover
- Declined the approx. €6000 (approx. $) counter-current system (although I enjoyed swimming a lot during my sports studies, but you have to make some compromises)
It was very practical that he had installed exactly the same pool with polypropylene solar underground roller cover in our preferred roller and pool color privately. He invited us to visit it after the consultation, so we are now very clear about the color choice of the pool, the PP roller cover, and the pool size.
My new questions:
1. He asked us about our preferred water temperature. We said 26°C (79°F). Is that a sensible temperature for an all-in-one pool?
2. Suggested option: Save on the heat pump and instead install a larger heater. What do you think about that?
3. Doesn’t the KfW subsidy depend on that?
4. He gave us a long explanation about quartz sand filter media versus AFM. What do you think about that?
Additional info:
Our photovoltaic system is planned to cover the entire roof. We are undecided about storage and currently leaning towards not getting one.
Ricky, even though this is mostly a dialogue between us here, I really appreciate your input and look forward to more comments from other users.
- 26°C (79°F) is suitable for swimming. For children and paddling, around 29°C (84°F) is better. It also depends on the outdoor temperature.
- What type of heating system have you planned? How far is the pool from the heater?
- AFM has a slightly better filtration performance than sand. It may last one to two years longer, but this depends on water maintenance and regular backwashing. The difference might be around €100.
What kind of filter (diameter, amount of sand...) and pump does it offer?
Definitely install an automatic backwash system (Besgo?). Otherwise, you will need to manually operate the multiport valve and switch the pump on/off weekly.
- What type of heating system have you planned? How far is the pool from the heater?
- AFM has a slightly better filtration performance than sand. It may last one to two years longer, but this depends on water maintenance and regular backwashing. The difference might be around €100.
What kind of filter (diameter, amount of sand...) and pump does it offer?
Definitely install an automatic backwash system (Besgo?). Otherwise, you will need to manually operate the multiport valve and switch the pump on/off weekly.
majuhenema schrieb:
My new questions:
1. He wanted to know our preferred water temperature. We said 26°C (79°F). Is that a reasonable value for a "jack-of-all-trades" pool?
2. Suggested option: save on a heat pump and instead install a larger heater. What do you think about that?
3. Doesn’t the KfW funding also depend on that?
4. He gave us a detailed explanation about quartz sand filter media or AFM. What do you think about that?Hello, if it is still possible, I would size the house heat pump so that it can also heat the pool, provided the pool is not located too far from the house. In that case, I would also try to install the pool equipment in the basement of the house (usually 2 m² (22 ft²) is sufficient for that). I would recommend AFM. It is a bit more expensive but needs to be replaced much less frequently.
The pool heater should be sized so that you can maintain the water temperature at least at 28°C (82°F).
M
majuhenema6 Aug 2021 07:55rick2018 schrieb:
- 26°C (79°F) is suitable for swimming. For children and paddling, it should be around 29°C (84°F). It also depends on the outside temperature.
- What type of heating system have you planned? How far is the pool from the heating system?
- AFM has a slightly better filtration performance than sand. It may last one to two years longer, but this depends on water maintenance and regular backwashing. The difference might be around €100.
What kind of filter (diameter, sand quantity, etc.) and pump does it offer?
Make sure to install an automatic backwash system (Besgo), otherwise you will have to manually operate the multi-port valve and pump on/off weekly. We have planned an air-to-water heat pump. The technical room is located in the basement on the south/southwest side, with the pool directly above it. This means the distance is quite short since only the terrace lies between them. There is also a convenient spot for a pool heat pump, but from an aesthetic point of view, I would prefer one without an outdoor unit.
I cannot specify the exact filter yet. I will provide that information as soon as I have the offer.
Regarding the automatic backwash, I am really unsure. He said the automatic system backwashes far too often and that it can be done manually quite quickly and easily. The hardest part is just remembering to do it. He also mentioned that officially it should be backwashed weekly, but it can also be done up to every three weeks.
sub-xero schrieb:
Hello,
if possible, I would size the house heat pump so that it can also heat the pool, provided the pool is not too far from the house. In this case, I would also try to house the pool equipment in the basement (usually 2 m² (22 ft²) is enough). I would recommend AFM. It is a bit more expensive but needs to be replaced much less often.
The pool heating should be sized to maintain the water temperature at least 28°C (82°F). Exactly! The pool equipment should go in the basement. He also recommended a larger heater instead of a separate heat pump but warned that this might affect eligibility for the KfW subsidy due to poor energy consulting. Do you have any gut feeling about this?
Thanks also for the tips on water temperature. The pool is definitely meant for paddling. I will get back to you with the 28/29°C (82/84°F) you mentioned!
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