ᐅ Creating a Plan for Insulating an Old Building – How to Proceed?
Created on: 30 Aug 2022 10:30
T
Tobibi
Hello,
I’m currently trying to make a plan for how to best improve the insulation of our house. I hope I can write everything down clearly so that some of you might be able to give me tips or suggest different approaches.
We bought a large house from 1982, about 200 sqm (2,150 sq ft) of living space. There is an approximately 6-year-old heat pump for heating and hot water, and a small wood stove in the living room. The ground floor and first floor have underfloor heating, while three basement rooms and a converted room above the garage have radiators. These radiators have a separate heating circuit with their own flow temperature and are rarely used, actually not at all in the basement.
In the main bedroom on the first floor, the previous owner opened the ceiling a few years ago, creating a high space that goes up to the roof ridge. The roof was insulated at that time, but I don’t have any documentation on how well. The rest of the house remains in its original condition, so basically uninsulated.
The walls are solid brick. The wooden windows have double glazing. Many windows and the front door do not seal well, allowing noticeable drafts at some windows. The top floor ceiling is not concrete but made of joists, covered underneath on the first floor with drywall and boards on top. Between the joists, there appears to be rock wool insulation packed in.
We have a 9 kWp photovoltaic system with battery storage, which the previous owner also installed. As it currently stands, the electricity from the photovoltaic system cannot be used for the heat pump, only for other household electricity. There is a separate meter with a heating electricity contract. Surplus electricity is fed back into the grid.
I recently received the heating electricity bill, showing that from March 2021 to March 2022—one full year—we used about 12,500 kWh for heating and hot water, which I find quite high. I definitely want to take action, especially since electricity prices are rising sharply. I’m not an experienced DIYer, but I can assist and have very helpful father and father-in-law who have a lot of skills. So, some things could be done ourselves, although time is always a factor.
A no-brainer seems to be replacing the window seals and adjusting them so they close tightly again. I am already in contact with a company for this.
Next, I’m thinking about insulating the roller shutter boxes. I would probably get a company to do this as well.
I’m considering insulating the basement ceiling with insulation boards that can be glued or fixed with plugs. If there are instructions available, we would rather do that ourselves. Or should I focus on insulating the top floor ceiling or installing insulation between the rafters? Or both? Probably not at the same time—maybe one this year and the other in a year or two. What would be the better order?
Would it make sense to modify the photovoltaic system so that the electricity can be used for the heat pump? I would have to hire an electrician for that, which costs money. But then the electricity would be usable for heating, and there would be only one basic fee. On the other hand, the yield in winter is not very good, and I would lose the cheaper heating electricity tariff. I once tracked generated, fed-in, self-used, and purchased electricity over a longer period and basically concluded that the conversion might not be worthwhile. But now electricity prices are rising dramatically.
Insulating the facade and/or installing new windows is honestly too expensive for me right now. On the other hand, we will need to have the entire exterior repainted next year or the year after. That costs several thousand when done professionally, which would almost offset the cost of external wall insulation. But presumably, these two should go together—insulation and new windows—because doing only one is not sensible and could cause problems with condensation.
So, that turned out to be quite a long message. I hope it’s understandable. How would you proceed? If I forgot anything, just ask. I might also add a follow-up later.
Best regards,
Tobi
I’m currently trying to make a plan for how to best improve the insulation of our house. I hope I can write everything down clearly so that some of you might be able to give me tips or suggest different approaches.
We bought a large house from 1982, about 200 sqm (2,150 sq ft) of living space. There is an approximately 6-year-old heat pump for heating and hot water, and a small wood stove in the living room. The ground floor and first floor have underfloor heating, while three basement rooms and a converted room above the garage have radiators. These radiators have a separate heating circuit with their own flow temperature and are rarely used, actually not at all in the basement.
In the main bedroom on the first floor, the previous owner opened the ceiling a few years ago, creating a high space that goes up to the roof ridge. The roof was insulated at that time, but I don’t have any documentation on how well. The rest of the house remains in its original condition, so basically uninsulated.
The walls are solid brick. The wooden windows have double glazing. Many windows and the front door do not seal well, allowing noticeable drafts at some windows. The top floor ceiling is not concrete but made of joists, covered underneath on the first floor with drywall and boards on top. Between the joists, there appears to be rock wool insulation packed in.
We have a 9 kWp photovoltaic system with battery storage, which the previous owner also installed. As it currently stands, the electricity from the photovoltaic system cannot be used for the heat pump, only for other household electricity. There is a separate meter with a heating electricity contract. Surplus electricity is fed back into the grid.
I recently received the heating electricity bill, showing that from March 2021 to March 2022—one full year—we used about 12,500 kWh for heating and hot water, which I find quite high. I definitely want to take action, especially since electricity prices are rising sharply. I’m not an experienced DIYer, but I can assist and have very helpful father and father-in-law who have a lot of skills. So, some things could be done ourselves, although time is always a factor.
A no-brainer seems to be replacing the window seals and adjusting them so they close tightly again. I am already in contact with a company for this.
Next, I’m thinking about insulating the roller shutter boxes. I would probably get a company to do this as well.
I’m considering insulating the basement ceiling with insulation boards that can be glued or fixed with plugs. If there are instructions available, we would rather do that ourselves. Or should I focus on insulating the top floor ceiling or installing insulation between the rafters? Or both? Probably not at the same time—maybe one this year and the other in a year or two. What would be the better order?
Would it make sense to modify the photovoltaic system so that the electricity can be used for the heat pump? I would have to hire an electrician for that, which costs money. But then the electricity would be usable for heating, and there would be only one basic fee. On the other hand, the yield in winter is not very good, and I would lose the cheaper heating electricity tariff. I once tracked generated, fed-in, self-used, and purchased electricity over a longer period and basically concluded that the conversion might not be worthwhile. But now electricity prices are rising dramatically.
Insulating the facade and/or installing new windows is honestly too expensive for me right now. On the other hand, we will need to have the entire exterior repainted next year or the year after. That costs several thousand when done professionally, which would almost offset the cost of external wall insulation. But presumably, these two should go together—insulation and new windows—because doing only one is not sensible and could cause problems with condensation.
So, that turned out to be quite a long message. I hope it’s understandable. How would you proceed? If I forgot anything, just ask. I might also add a follow-up later.
Best regards,
Tobi
Cronos86 schrieb:
No, I am simply doubting the existence of a product whose claimed effects I cannot explain scientifically.
Have you heard of Occam's razor?
- Among multiple sufficient explanations for the same phenomenon, the simplest theory is to be preferred over all others.
- A theory is simple if it contains as few variables and assumptions as possible, and if these stand in clear logical relationships from which the phenomenon to be explained logically follows.
Here we have two possible theories.
1. Either there is a product that possesses the advertised properties, without any understandable description or proof of how it works. A product that could replace all other insulation materials, at least in most areas, on the market. One that would enable us to achieve our climate protection goals and thermal insulation in the residential sector without extreme costs or material effort. A product that is inexpensive, easy to manufacture, and even simpler to apply.
or
2. It is a scam.
The material clearly has product properties, but a 1-3 mm (0.04-0.12 inch) coating does not replace several centimeters (inches) of insulation made from mineral wool, EPS, or wood fiber.
I would say everyone should decide for themselves whether to use this product... but since I fear someone might actually try it out of curiosity, this topic should probably be deleted. Many have already tried it and become repeat users. For example, all tire vulcanizers worldwide from Continental and Michelin are insulated with it.
But that may be fake. And the bottle with a 1 mm (0.04 inch) coating that supposedly makes boiling water touchable is just an illusion. It’s not even in my house. 😀
Adam2112 schrieb:
Many have already tried it and become repeat users. For example, all tire vulcanizers worldwide from Continental and Michelin are insulated with it.
But this might be fake. And the bottle that makes boiling water touchable through a 1mm (0.04 inch) layer is also just an illusion. It’s not even at my home. 😀 I already mentioned that the material has its properties, and facade insulation is not its main application. A lambda value of 0.048 W/m·K is not bad either...
Oh, and to put it in perspective: the product PSC, with a lambda of 0.00012 W/m·K, has about 40 times lower thermal conductivity than vacuum insulation panels (approximately 0.004 W/m·K). Vacuum insulation panels, in turn, are about 10 times better than expanded polystyrene foam (EPS, thermal conductivity class 040).
That means PSC would have 400 times lower thermal conductivity than EPS (WLG 040).
And here is something else I found....
Alright, I'll join the thought experiment and say the material is approved, a miracle product, etc.
Next year, I will renovate my house. If I first insulate it using conventional methods and then apply this stuff on top, theoretically I would achieve ideal performance values.
So why doesn’t everyone take advantage of the KfW40+ subsidy when renovating? It doesn’t even have to actually work, theoretically it should be enough for the subsidy, right?
Next year, I will renovate my house. If I first insulate it using conventional methods and then apply this stuff on top, theoretically I would achieve ideal performance values.
So why doesn’t everyone take advantage of the KfW40+ subsidy when renovating? It doesn’t even have to actually work, theoretically it should be enough for the subsidy, right?
Everyone should simply try it for themselves. There are sample kits available for 10 euros, and you can already feel after a short time—even just by hand—that no heat passes through. Infrared is reflected, and the vacuum does the rest. Trying it out is better than just studying it.
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