ᐅ Fence height adjacent to the neighbor and windows in the boundary wall
Created on: 28 Nov 2019 09:58
C
Climbee
Our dear neighbors… I’ve mentioned this a few times before.
But anyway: both of us (including the neighbors) want a privacy fence between our properties. So far, we had planned to have a landscape gardener propose a garden design, including this privacy fence, and then coordinate it with the neighbors.
A lot has changed since then, and we no longer plan to coordinate; we want to install the tallest possible fence.
As far as I know, I can put up a fence up to 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) high without additional permission.
My question is: from which ground level is this measured? We have a slightly sloped plot, and on the side where the privacy fence is planned, we will not raise the terrain but will extend the terrace into a balcony. So, there will be no retaining wall underneath, just support columns on which this “quasi” balcony will rest.
The height difference to the neighbor’s property should be about 100–110 centimeters (39–43 inches) at the highest point.
Am I allowed to measure the 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) from my (higher) level, or is the natural ground level decisive?
The building permit originally included a retaining wall at this spot, which, as mentioned above, has now been replaced by support columns (this is the current planning stage; if we need a wall to reach the 1.80-meter (5 feet 11 inches) privacy height, we will build one).
Second pain point:
The neighbor’s garage is built on our boundary line, and in the boundary wall there is a window facing our property, which was neither approved nor registered in the land register. This is a standard wooden window that opens. At one time, there were shutters installed that extended onto our property, but now only the brackets remain, which still protrude about 15 centimeters (6 inches) onto our land.
As far as I know, this kind of window should generally meet fire resistance class F90—but I don’t really care; that’s for their fire insurance to sort out.
The protruding shutter brackets bother us because you can catch on them—they’re simply in the way. Also, after a few incidents, we would prefer that this window cannot be opened and that the neighbors can’t look into our yard there (we actually want to create our main terrace in that area).
If the neighborhood were friendly, I wouldn’t mind at all, but here…
In Bavaria, there is a so-called window protection law (Art. 43–45 AGBGB):
Windows and any kind of light openings that are less than 60 centimeters (24 inches) from the property boundary must, at the neighbor’s request, be designed so that up to a height of 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) above the floor level of the lit room (approximately eye level) neither opening nor looking through is possible. When using opaque glass blocks, no impairment to the neighboring property is expected; therefore, exterior walls with such light openings are permitted within the 60-centimeter (24-inch) protection zone.
I also found this:
A peculiarity of the Bavarian regulation is that it depends on the use of the neighboring property. For the owner to invoke the window protection law, their property must be either developed or used as a courtyard or garden. If a previously undeveloped property is later built on, from that point onward the window protection law can be enforced, meaning windows that are located within the boundary distance in exterior walls on the adjacent property must be modified as required by Art. 43 AGBGB at the neighbor’s request.
Does this mean I can demand that the window be modified accordingly?
Can I also plan something in front of the window? The wall looks awful, and as part of the garden design, we will definitely do something there. It won’t come down to me repainting the neighbor’s wall every two years (he unfortunately installed bargeboards on the boundary side with no gutter, so water drips onto the wall causing stains—no matter if we paint it, it will look bad again after two years). To what extent do I have to consider the window? Or could I just put up a wooden fence in front of it?
What can be done about the really obstructive brackets? Are we allowed to simply remove them, or do I have to request the neighbor to do so?
Here is a picture (from long ago – instead of the little trees, our garden furniture is now there *g*), so you can get an idea:
If you look closely, you can see the brackets (we will just leave the fact that the windowsill also protrudes onto our property as it is).
We’re currently planning the garden, so these questions are very urgent right now.
But anyway: both of us (including the neighbors) want a privacy fence between our properties. So far, we had planned to have a landscape gardener propose a garden design, including this privacy fence, and then coordinate it with the neighbors.
A lot has changed since then, and we no longer plan to coordinate; we want to install the tallest possible fence.
As far as I know, I can put up a fence up to 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) high without additional permission.
My question is: from which ground level is this measured? We have a slightly sloped plot, and on the side where the privacy fence is planned, we will not raise the terrain but will extend the terrace into a balcony. So, there will be no retaining wall underneath, just support columns on which this “quasi” balcony will rest.
The height difference to the neighbor’s property should be about 100–110 centimeters (39–43 inches) at the highest point.
Am I allowed to measure the 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) from my (higher) level, or is the natural ground level decisive?
The building permit originally included a retaining wall at this spot, which, as mentioned above, has now been replaced by support columns (this is the current planning stage; if we need a wall to reach the 1.80-meter (5 feet 11 inches) privacy height, we will build one).
Second pain point:
The neighbor’s garage is built on our boundary line, and in the boundary wall there is a window facing our property, which was neither approved nor registered in the land register. This is a standard wooden window that opens. At one time, there were shutters installed that extended onto our property, but now only the brackets remain, which still protrude about 15 centimeters (6 inches) onto our land.
As far as I know, this kind of window should generally meet fire resistance class F90—but I don’t really care; that’s for their fire insurance to sort out.
The protruding shutter brackets bother us because you can catch on them—they’re simply in the way. Also, after a few incidents, we would prefer that this window cannot be opened and that the neighbors can’t look into our yard there (we actually want to create our main terrace in that area).
If the neighborhood were friendly, I wouldn’t mind at all, but here…
In Bavaria, there is a so-called window protection law (Art. 43–45 AGBGB):
Windows and any kind of light openings that are less than 60 centimeters (24 inches) from the property boundary must, at the neighbor’s request, be designed so that up to a height of 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) above the floor level of the lit room (approximately eye level) neither opening nor looking through is possible. When using opaque glass blocks, no impairment to the neighboring property is expected; therefore, exterior walls with such light openings are permitted within the 60-centimeter (24-inch) protection zone.
I also found this:
A peculiarity of the Bavarian regulation is that it depends on the use of the neighboring property. For the owner to invoke the window protection law, their property must be either developed or used as a courtyard or garden. If a previously undeveloped property is later built on, from that point onward the window protection law can be enforced, meaning windows that are located within the boundary distance in exterior walls on the adjacent property must be modified as required by Art. 43 AGBGB at the neighbor’s request.
Does this mean I can demand that the window be modified accordingly?
Can I also plan something in front of the window? The wall looks awful, and as part of the garden design, we will definitely do something there. It won’t come down to me repainting the neighbor’s wall every two years (he unfortunately installed bargeboards on the boundary side with no gutter, so water drips onto the wall causing stains—no matter if we paint it, it will look bad again after two years). To what extent do I have to consider the window? Or could I just put up a wooden fence in front of it?
What can be done about the really obstructive brackets? Are we allowed to simply remove them, or do I have to request the neighbor to do so?
Here is a picture (from long ago – instead of the little trees, our garden furniture is now there *g*), so you can get an idea:
If you look closely, you can see the brackets (we will just leave the fact that the windowsill also protrudes onto our property as it is).
We’re currently planning the garden, so these questions are very urgent right now.
Climbee schrieb:
It might be worth consulting the local authorities responsible for regulatory compliance regarding wildlife cameras (are they really the ones in charge?) and the fire department about the garage window that doesn’t meet fire safety requirements.
However, I would only pursue this once we have possibly agreed on the height of the privacy fence. I am still hoping for some compromise, since a taller privacy fence should also be in their interest. If these cameras are directed at your property, that would be a serious violation of your privacy rights. You could also file a criminal complaint immediately.
The responsible judge at the district court in Munich ruled in favor of the plaintiff couple.
She ordered the defendant to cease, under threat of a fine or substitute imprisonment, using the video camera installed on a tree on his property in Ottobrunn near Munich to monitor the neighboring property rented by the plaintiff couple, specifically to create, store, reproduce, retain, or otherwise use images or recordings of the property or persons located there. Furthermore, he was required to bear the costs of the district court proceedings, including pre-litigation attorney fees of approximately 2,600 € (around 2,600 euros).
The cameras are really not acceptable at all! Neither legally nor from a neighborly perspective.
And you can be sure that you will appear in the recordings (even if they are just photos), because if it is a proper trail camera, it reacts to motion (combined with heat), meaning living beings... so it triggers precisely when you are in the frame.
And you can be sure that you will appear in the recordings (even if they are just photos), because if it is a proper trail camera, it reacts to motion (combined with heat), meaning living beings... so it triggers precisely when you are in the frame.
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Fummelbrett!29 Nov 2019 11:06You don’t need a neighbor like that. We also have a nagging busybody next door, but fortunately, she’s already past 70.
I would officially describe the privacy fence as a noise barrier for her. That only benefits her. Of course, unofficially she’ll hate you because it blocks or reduces her view. I’d write her a polite (!) letter proposing to build the fence at height x. Initially, don’t respond to her nagging or mention the camera. If she doesn’t accept the offer in good faith, then I’d take action regarding the cameras. Contact the local code enforcement office (or building authority / planning department). Then just build the fence from ground level and plant something behind it that will block her view.
I would officially describe the privacy fence as a noise barrier for her. That only benefits her. Of course, unofficially she’ll hate you because it blocks or reduces her view. I’d write her a polite (!) letter proposing to build the fence at height x. Initially, don’t respond to her nagging or mention the camera. If she doesn’t accept the offer in good faith, then I’d take action regarding the cameras. Contact the local code enforcement office (or building authority / planning department). Then just build the fence from ground level and plant something behind it that will block her view.
I don’t think her intention is to spy on us — she just doesn’t want us to be able to see into her property (which frankly we don’t care about, since we simply don’t look). And she doesn’t want to hear anything from us; we’re supposed to be as quiet as if we weren’t there.
What exactly they hope to find out with the cameras is completely unclear to us... at best, they might catch me walking from the kitchen to the compost bin behind the house. That must be incredibly interesting. I don’t know if the cameras also activate when we move inside the house. But even then, what could they see? How we cook? How we sit at the table and eat? What’s the point of that???
What exactly they hope to find out with the cameras is completely unclear to us... at best, they might catch me walking from the kitchen to the compost bin behind the house. That must be incredibly interesting. I don’t know if the cameras also activate when we move inside the house. But even then, what could they see? How we cook? How we sit at the table and eat? What’s the point of that???
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Matthew0329 Nov 2019 11:36Climbee schrieb:
I’m not sure if the cameras also trigger when we move inside the house.Don’t you feel uncomfortable just thinking about that? For me, that alone would be reason enough to confront the issue directly and make things clear.
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hampshire29 Nov 2019 11:52The Fury has a spouse – either that person is very unfortunate or has a very specific fetish.
Even I, usually quite easygoing, view the cameras very critically. That’s not acceptable.
By the way, trail cameras also record sounds – so much for the topic "I hear every word"...
It’s not enough to point the cameras only at your own property; it must also be ensured that any microphones do not record anything from your property. In this case, I would even consider taking legal action to cease and desist. (Some things simply cannot be resolved with humor, I understand that as well.)
Is there a mediator near you? That would be the step before a banning order and lawyers. Even if you think the chance of success with a mediator is low – if it comes to a legal dispute, this step demonstrates your willingness to resolve the matter amicably and significantly improves your position.
I am absolutely no fan of legal conflicts, but if a dispute arises and everything has failed, I recommend going all out and being well prepared.
Even I, usually quite easygoing, view the cameras very critically. That’s not acceptable.
Climbee schrieb:I have two trail cameras on the property (both at least 20m (65 feet) away from neighbors and not pointed in their direction) and tested this scenario with unclear results. It is therefore possible that they still trigger despite the window in between.
I don’t know if the cameras also trigger when we move inside the house.
By the way, trail cameras also record sounds – so much for the topic "I hear every word"...
It’s not enough to point the cameras only at your own property; it must also be ensured that any microphones do not record anything from your property. In this case, I would even consider taking legal action to cease and desist. (Some things simply cannot be resolved with humor, I understand that as well.)
Is there a mediator near you? That would be the step before a banning order and lawyers. Even if you think the chance of success with a mediator is low – if it comes to a legal dispute, this step demonstrates your willingness to resolve the matter amicably and significantly improves your position.
I am absolutely no fan of legal conflicts, but if a dispute arises and everything has failed, I recommend going all out and being well prepared.
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