ᐅ Fence height adjacent to the neighbor and windows in the boundary wall
Created on: 28 Nov 2019 09:58
C
Climbee
Our dear neighbors… I’ve mentioned this a few times before.
But anyway: both of us (including the neighbors) want a privacy fence between our properties. So far, we had planned to have a landscape gardener propose a garden design, including this privacy fence, and then coordinate it with the neighbors.
A lot has changed since then, and we no longer plan to coordinate; we want to install the tallest possible fence.
As far as I know, I can put up a fence up to 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) high without additional permission.
My question is: from which ground level is this measured? We have a slightly sloped plot, and on the side where the privacy fence is planned, we will not raise the terrain but will extend the terrace into a balcony. So, there will be no retaining wall underneath, just support columns on which this “quasi” balcony will rest.
The height difference to the neighbor’s property should be about 100–110 centimeters (39–43 inches) at the highest point.
Am I allowed to measure the 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) from my (higher) level, or is the natural ground level decisive?
The building permit originally included a retaining wall at this spot, which, as mentioned above, has now been replaced by support columns (this is the current planning stage; if we need a wall to reach the 1.80-meter (5 feet 11 inches) privacy height, we will build one).
Second pain point:
The neighbor’s garage is built on our boundary line, and in the boundary wall there is a window facing our property, which was neither approved nor registered in the land register. This is a standard wooden window that opens. At one time, there were shutters installed that extended onto our property, but now only the brackets remain, which still protrude about 15 centimeters (6 inches) onto our land.
As far as I know, this kind of window should generally meet fire resistance class F90—but I don’t really care; that’s for their fire insurance to sort out.
The protruding shutter brackets bother us because you can catch on them—they’re simply in the way. Also, after a few incidents, we would prefer that this window cannot be opened and that the neighbors can’t look into our yard there (we actually want to create our main terrace in that area).
If the neighborhood were friendly, I wouldn’t mind at all, but here…
In Bavaria, there is a so-called window protection law (Art. 43–45 AGBGB):
Windows and any kind of light openings that are less than 60 centimeters (24 inches) from the property boundary must, at the neighbor’s request, be designed so that up to a height of 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) above the floor level of the lit room (approximately eye level) neither opening nor looking through is possible. When using opaque glass blocks, no impairment to the neighboring property is expected; therefore, exterior walls with such light openings are permitted within the 60-centimeter (24-inch) protection zone.
I also found this:
A peculiarity of the Bavarian regulation is that it depends on the use of the neighboring property. For the owner to invoke the window protection law, their property must be either developed or used as a courtyard or garden. If a previously undeveloped property is later built on, from that point onward the window protection law can be enforced, meaning windows that are located within the boundary distance in exterior walls on the adjacent property must be modified as required by Art. 43 AGBGB at the neighbor’s request.
Does this mean I can demand that the window be modified accordingly?
Can I also plan something in front of the window? The wall looks awful, and as part of the garden design, we will definitely do something there. It won’t come down to me repainting the neighbor’s wall every two years (he unfortunately installed bargeboards on the boundary side with no gutter, so water drips onto the wall causing stains—no matter if we paint it, it will look bad again after two years). To what extent do I have to consider the window? Or could I just put up a wooden fence in front of it?
What can be done about the really obstructive brackets? Are we allowed to simply remove them, or do I have to request the neighbor to do so?
Here is a picture (from long ago – instead of the little trees, our garden furniture is now there *g*), so you can get an idea:
If you look closely, you can see the brackets (we will just leave the fact that the windowsill also protrudes onto our property as it is).
We’re currently planning the garden, so these questions are very urgent right now.
But anyway: both of us (including the neighbors) want a privacy fence between our properties. So far, we had planned to have a landscape gardener propose a garden design, including this privacy fence, and then coordinate it with the neighbors.
A lot has changed since then, and we no longer plan to coordinate; we want to install the tallest possible fence.
As far as I know, I can put up a fence up to 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) high without additional permission.
My question is: from which ground level is this measured? We have a slightly sloped plot, and on the side where the privacy fence is planned, we will not raise the terrain but will extend the terrace into a balcony. So, there will be no retaining wall underneath, just support columns on which this “quasi” balcony will rest.
The height difference to the neighbor’s property should be about 100–110 centimeters (39–43 inches) at the highest point.
Am I allowed to measure the 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) from my (higher) level, or is the natural ground level decisive?
The building permit originally included a retaining wall at this spot, which, as mentioned above, has now been replaced by support columns (this is the current planning stage; if we need a wall to reach the 1.80-meter (5 feet 11 inches) privacy height, we will build one).
Second pain point:
The neighbor’s garage is built on our boundary line, and in the boundary wall there is a window facing our property, which was neither approved nor registered in the land register. This is a standard wooden window that opens. At one time, there were shutters installed that extended onto our property, but now only the brackets remain, which still protrude about 15 centimeters (6 inches) onto our land.
As far as I know, this kind of window should generally meet fire resistance class F90—but I don’t really care; that’s for their fire insurance to sort out.
The protruding shutter brackets bother us because you can catch on them—they’re simply in the way. Also, after a few incidents, we would prefer that this window cannot be opened and that the neighbors can’t look into our yard there (we actually want to create our main terrace in that area).
If the neighborhood were friendly, I wouldn’t mind at all, but here…
In Bavaria, there is a so-called window protection law (Art. 43–45 AGBGB):
Windows and any kind of light openings that are less than 60 centimeters (24 inches) from the property boundary must, at the neighbor’s request, be designed so that up to a height of 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) above the floor level of the lit room (approximately eye level) neither opening nor looking through is possible. When using opaque glass blocks, no impairment to the neighboring property is expected; therefore, exterior walls with such light openings are permitted within the 60-centimeter (24-inch) protection zone.
I also found this:
A peculiarity of the Bavarian regulation is that it depends on the use of the neighboring property. For the owner to invoke the window protection law, their property must be either developed or used as a courtyard or garden. If a previously undeveloped property is later built on, from that point onward the window protection law can be enforced, meaning windows that are located within the boundary distance in exterior walls on the adjacent property must be modified as required by Art. 43 AGBGB at the neighbor’s request.
Does this mean I can demand that the window be modified accordingly?
Can I also plan something in front of the window? The wall looks awful, and as part of the garden design, we will definitely do something there. It won’t come down to me repainting the neighbor’s wall every two years (he unfortunately installed bargeboards on the boundary side with no gutter, so water drips onto the wall causing stains—no matter if we paint it, it will look bad again after two years). To what extent do I have to consider the window? Or could I just put up a wooden fence in front of it?
What can be done about the really obstructive brackets? Are we allowed to simply remove them, or do I have to request the neighbor to do so?
Here is a picture (from long ago – instead of the little trees, our garden furniture is now there *g*), so you can get an idea:
If you look closely, you can see the brackets (we will just leave the fact that the windowsill also protrudes onto our property as it is).
We’re currently planning the garden, so these questions are very urgent right now.
Wow, the issue with the cameras is really a tricky one. When I think about how long it took at my company to set up the cameras properly, it was a fine balance between respecting the neighboring properties and effectively monitoring the site.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that you find a workable solution.
It almost makes me consider turning my own property into a barbecue and camping area and staying in the rental apartment.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that you find a workable solution.
It almost makes me consider turning my own property into a barbecue and camping area and staying in the rental apartment.
Climbee schrieb:
The fence will be at our expense—that's not up for discussion. The issue is purely about the height; despite everything, we will inquire whether we are allowed to exceed the permitted 2m (6.5 ft). If so, I'll have both of them sign off on the plan (the furrier also has a spouse, who is neither seen nor heard).
Oh, and I forgot: for about a month now, they have set up wildlife cameras in their garden that also monitor our property. Such a camera typically has a field of view of approximately 170° and they are positioned so that they watch our property as well (quite extensively). So far, we've said nothing about it (what could they possibly expect to see other than a cat doing its business?). We were thinking of casually asking over the fence what they are observing and what they have seen so far (and gauging their reaction). That’s the situation with the video surveillance... Now I’m considering whether I should formally prohibit it. According to data protection laws, this is definitely illegal.
If it really comes to the point where we have to issue a trespassing order, then installing a surveillance camera might become quite relevant. Otherwise, how could I prove that they ignored my trespass notice?
But somehow I’m still hoping things won’t escalate that far. Excuse me, what? Public order office, TODAY.
Your plan to avoid escalating the situation is understandable, but to summarize:
- Problems have existed with the family for years
- Constant harassment
- Nighttime noise disturbance
- Illegal video surveillance of the property/private space
Your plan will not succeed and will only cause more frustration. My advice is to clearly establish facts and set firm boundaries.
- Problems have existed with the family for years
- Constant harassment
- Nighttime noise disturbance
- Illegal video surveillance of the property/private space
Your plan will not succeed and will only cause more frustration. My advice is to clearly establish facts and set firm boundaries.
It might be worth considering contacting the regulatory office regarding wildlife cameras (are they really responsible for that?) and the fire department about the garage window not meeting fire safety standards. However, I would only do this once we have possibly agreed on the height of the privacy fence. I am still hoping for some flexibility there, as a taller privacy fence should also be in their interest.
Is it even allowed to have a window in a boundary garage wall? In my opinion, usually not.
About the neighbor: I think you need to take a different approach. That means simply being MUCH louder than her. I once had a neighbor like that, although in an apartment building. He complained constantly, rang the doorbell, put up notes, threw trash into the stroller, and so on for years. At some point, he even stood deliberately in the hallway in front of my (at the time quite small) children, causing the little one to trip. That’s when I confronted him briefly (not physically), looked him straight in the eyes, and made VERY, VERY clear and firm where the limits are. After that, not a single word came our way again. He then focused on other neighbors.
About the neighbor: I think you need to take a different approach. That means simply being MUCH louder than her. I once had a neighbor like that, although in an apartment building. He complained constantly, rang the doorbell, put up notes, threw trash into the stroller, and so on for years. At some point, he even stood deliberately in the hallway in front of my (at the time quite small) children, causing the little one to trip. That’s when I confronted him briefly (not physically), looked him straight in the eyes, and made VERY, VERY clear and firm where the limits are. After that, not a single word came our way again. He then focused on other neighbors.
B
boxandroof29 Nov 2019 09:53Set clear boundaries in a friendly but firm way and ignore the rest as much as possible. A ban on entering the property was a good suggestion. The neighbors’ cameras are not acceptable at all.
Having your own cameras is pointless; that puts you mentally and practically into escalation. You don’t have to prove anything. If the property ban is ignored, just call the police and that’s it. It will have enough impact on your neighbors who care about order if the police show up just because of them.
Having your own cameras is pointless; that puts you mentally and practically into escalation. You don’t have to prove anything. If the property ban is ignored, just call the police and that’s it. It will have enough impact on your neighbors who care about order if the police show up just because of them.