ᐅ Fence height adjacent to the neighbor and windows in the boundary wall
Created on: 28 Nov 2019 09:58
C
Climbee
Our dear neighbors… I’ve mentioned this a few times before.
But anyway: both of us (including the neighbors) want a privacy fence between our properties. So far, we had planned to have a landscape gardener propose a garden design, including this privacy fence, and then coordinate it with the neighbors.
A lot has changed since then, and we no longer plan to coordinate; we want to install the tallest possible fence.
As far as I know, I can put up a fence up to 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) high without additional permission.
My question is: from which ground level is this measured? We have a slightly sloped plot, and on the side where the privacy fence is planned, we will not raise the terrain but will extend the terrace into a balcony. So, there will be no retaining wall underneath, just support columns on which this “quasi” balcony will rest.
The height difference to the neighbor’s property should be about 100–110 centimeters (39–43 inches) at the highest point.
Am I allowed to measure the 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) from my (higher) level, or is the natural ground level decisive?
The building permit originally included a retaining wall at this spot, which, as mentioned above, has now been replaced by support columns (this is the current planning stage; if we need a wall to reach the 1.80-meter (5 feet 11 inches) privacy height, we will build one).
Second pain point:
The neighbor’s garage is built on our boundary line, and in the boundary wall there is a window facing our property, which was neither approved nor registered in the land register. This is a standard wooden window that opens. At one time, there were shutters installed that extended onto our property, but now only the brackets remain, which still protrude about 15 centimeters (6 inches) onto our land.
As far as I know, this kind of window should generally meet fire resistance class F90—but I don’t really care; that’s for their fire insurance to sort out.
The protruding shutter brackets bother us because you can catch on them—they’re simply in the way. Also, after a few incidents, we would prefer that this window cannot be opened and that the neighbors can’t look into our yard there (we actually want to create our main terrace in that area).
If the neighborhood were friendly, I wouldn’t mind at all, but here…
In Bavaria, there is a so-called window protection law (Art. 43–45 AGBGB):
Windows and any kind of light openings that are less than 60 centimeters (24 inches) from the property boundary must, at the neighbor’s request, be designed so that up to a height of 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) above the floor level of the lit room (approximately eye level) neither opening nor looking through is possible. When using opaque glass blocks, no impairment to the neighboring property is expected; therefore, exterior walls with such light openings are permitted within the 60-centimeter (24-inch) protection zone.
I also found this:
A peculiarity of the Bavarian regulation is that it depends on the use of the neighboring property. For the owner to invoke the window protection law, their property must be either developed or used as a courtyard or garden. If a previously undeveloped property is later built on, from that point onward the window protection law can be enforced, meaning windows that are located within the boundary distance in exterior walls on the adjacent property must be modified as required by Art. 43 AGBGB at the neighbor’s request.
Does this mean I can demand that the window be modified accordingly?
Can I also plan something in front of the window? The wall looks awful, and as part of the garden design, we will definitely do something there. It won’t come down to me repainting the neighbor’s wall every two years (he unfortunately installed bargeboards on the boundary side with no gutter, so water drips onto the wall causing stains—no matter if we paint it, it will look bad again after two years). To what extent do I have to consider the window? Or could I just put up a wooden fence in front of it?
What can be done about the really obstructive brackets? Are we allowed to simply remove them, or do I have to request the neighbor to do so?
Here is a picture (from long ago – instead of the little trees, our garden furniture is now there *g*), so you can get an idea:
If you look closely, you can see the brackets (we will just leave the fact that the windowsill also protrudes onto our property as it is).
We’re currently planning the garden, so these questions are very urgent right now.
But anyway: both of us (including the neighbors) want a privacy fence between our properties. So far, we had planned to have a landscape gardener propose a garden design, including this privacy fence, and then coordinate it with the neighbors.
A lot has changed since then, and we no longer plan to coordinate; we want to install the tallest possible fence.
As far as I know, I can put up a fence up to 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) high without additional permission.
My question is: from which ground level is this measured? We have a slightly sloped plot, and on the side where the privacy fence is planned, we will not raise the terrain but will extend the terrace into a balcony. So, there will be no retaining wall underneath, just support columns on which this “quasi” balcony will rest.
The height difference to the neighbor’s property should be about 100–110 centimeters (39–43 inches) at the highest point.
Am I allowed to measure the 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) from my (higher) level, or is the natural ground level decisive?
The building permit originally included a retaining wall at this spot, which, as mentioned above, has now been replaced by support columns (this is the current planning stage; if we need a wall to reach the 1.80-meter (5 feet 11 inches) privacy height, we will build one).
Second pain point:
The neighbor’s garage is built on our boundary line, and in the boundary wall there is a window facing our property, which was neither approved nor registered in the land register. This is a standard wooden window that opens. At one time, there were shutters installed that extended onto our property, but now only the brackets remain, which still protrude about 15 centimeters (6 inches) onto our land.
As far as I know, this kind of window should generally meet fire resistance class F90—but I don’t really care; that’s for their fire insurance to sort out.
The protruding shutter brackets bother us because you can catch on them—they’re simply in the way. Also, after a few incidents, we would prefer that this window cannot be opened and that the neighbors can’t look into our yard there (we actually want to create our main terrace in that area).
If the neighborhood were friendly, I wouldn’t mind at all, but here…
In Bavaria, there is a so-called window protection law (Art. 43–45 AGBGB):
Windows and any kind of light openings that are less than 60 centimeters (24 inches) from the property boundary must, at the neighbor’s request, be designed so that up to a height of 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) above the floor level of the lit room (approximately eye level) neither opening nor looking through is possible. When using opaque glass blocks, no impairment to the neighboring property is expected; therefore, exterior walls with such light openings are permitted within the 60-centimeter (24-inch) protection zone.
I also found this:
A peculiarity of the Bavarian regulation is that it depends on the use of the neighboring property. For the owner to invoke the window protection law, their property must be either developed or used as a courtyard or garden. If a previously undeveloped property is later built on, from that point onward the window protection law can be enforced, meaning windows that are located within the boundary distance in exterior walls on the adjacent property must be modified as required by Art. 43 AGBGB at the neighbor’s request.
Does this mean I can demand that the window be modified accordingly?
Can I also plan something in front of the window? The wall looks awful, and as part of the garden design, we will definitely do something there. It won’t come down to me repainting the neighbor’s wall every two years (he unfortunately installed bargeboards on the boundary side with no gutter, so water drips onto the wall causing stains—no matter if we paint it, it will look bad again after two years). To what extent do I have to consider the window? Or could I just put up a wooden fence in front of it?
What can be done about the really obstructive brackets? Are we allowed to simply remove them, or do I have to request the neighbor to do so?
Here is a picture (from long ago – instead of the little trees, our garden furniture is now there *g*), so you can get an idea:
If you look closely, you can see the brackets (we will just leave the fact that the windowsill also protrudes onto our property as it is).
We’re currently planning the garden, so these questions are very urgent right now.
hampshire, using humor works for a while, but when you eventually have to restrict yourself to avoid constant conflict, humor no longer helps. As I said, this year we hardly spent any time outside because even beforehand the desire to do so was spoiled. True, the garden wasn’t set up yet, but this year we hope to use our hopefully well-designed outdoor area.
I can put up a fence 2m (about 6.5 feet) high without a building permit/planning permission. However, I recently found out that it has to follow the terrain, which in our case would mean a privacy screen of only about 80-90cm (31-35 inches) at the highest point. Since the neighbors are also interested in having some privacy here (we have discussed this before), I think we will reach an agreement. They just need to tell us how much higher a privacy fence they would accept, and yes, I will get that in writing. If nothing can be agreed on, the fence will simply be the allowed 2m (about 6.5 feet) high, and that’s that.
Joedreck, I don’t want to provoke them further, but from now on we will just live our normal life, including having windows open and being outside, and they will have to accept that. The quiet approach we have taken so far hasn’t helped. Maybe they just need a clear message. Otherwise, we are practically nonexistent neighbors—we leave early for work and usually go to bed around 10 p.m. because we have to get up early. Honestly, if a neighbor is a bit loud one evening, I wouldn’t get upset about it; that can happen to anyone. But even that wasn’t the case that day—we were watching TV and just opened the patio door. That was already too much for them.
boxandroof: A lawyer is my last resort; I’m not really keen on that. But if this continues, there will at least be a letter from a lawyer (for example, requesting that the garage window be brought into compliance with legal requirements within a reasonable timeframe). I now believe that kindness and consideration won’t get us anywhere with her—she needs a stop sign right in front of her. Maybe things will improve once she’s had a strong warning. On the other hand, she has no leverage against us. We have followed all the rules, don’t throw loud parties, don’t play loud music, we just talk and laugh sometimes outside and/or with windows open. But I don’t think anyone can do anything against that, neither the police nor a lawyer.
My hope is that with the privacy fence and a landscaped garden, which will also absorb some noise through the plants, the situation will calm down. But that won’t start until at least March next year, and it will take time to finish. When I calculate how often I’ll still have to deal with the nagging nightmare until then, it makes me dizzy...
I can put up a fence 2m (about 6.5 feet) high without a building permit/planning permission. However, I recently found out that it has to follow the terrain, which in our case would mean a privacy screen of only about 80-90cm (31-35 inches) at the highest point. Since the neighbors are also interested in having some privacy here (we have discussed this before), I think we will reach an agreement. They just need to tell us how much higher a privacy fence they would accept, and yes, I will get that in writing. If nothing can be agreed on, the fence will simply be the allowed 2m (about 6.5 feet) high, and that’s that.
Joedreck, I don’t want to provoke them further, but from now on we will just live our normal life, including having windows open and being outside, and they will have to accept that. The quiet approach we have taken so far hasn’t helped. Maybe they just need a clear message. Otherwise, we are practically nonexistent neighbors—we leave early for work and usually go to bed around 10 p.m. because we have to get up early. Honestly, if a neighbor is a bit loud one evening, I wouldn’t get upset about it; that can happen to anyone. But even that wasn’t the case that day—we were watching TV and just opened the patio door. That was already too much for them.
boxandroof: A lawyer is my last resort; I’m not really keen on that. But if this continues, there will at least be a letter from a lawyer (for example, requesting that the garage window be brought into compliance with legal requirements within a reasonable timeframe). I now believe that kindness and consideration won’t get us anywhere with her—she needs a stop sign right in front of her. Maybe things will improve once she’s had a strong warning. On the other hand, she has no leverage against us. We have followed all the rules, don’t throw loud parties, don’t play loud music, we just talk and laugh sometimes outside and/or with windows open. But I don’t think anyone can do anything against that, neither the police nor a lawyer.
My hope is that with the privacy fence and a landscaped garden, which will also absorb some noise through the plants, the situation will calm down. But that won’t start until at least March next year, and it will take time to finish. When I calculate how often I’ll still have to deal with the nagging nightmare until then, it makes me dizzy...
Then place large pots with taller plants behind the privacy screen. This way, they can be easily removed if she decides to take action. Maybe she’s just the neighborhood busybody, then nothing will happen.
It’s really exhausting. Friends of ours had neighbors like that. At every little noise, you’d listen closely to see if the fury was coming up the stairs or calling the police again.
It’s really exhausting. Friends of ours had neighbors like that. At every little noise, you’d listen closely to see if the fury was coming up the stairs or calling the police again.
Don’t let the difficult person sense your tension or frustration. Ignore all their nonsense but still greet them politely. That annoys people like that the most. As frustrating as it is, you need to find a way that is bearable for you because you won’t be able to change her behavior.
A tree will be planted in front of the garage window, if necessary in a pot, positioned so that very little light comes in. Only the legally allowed fence will be placed on the boundary, but with the unattractive side facing the neighbors. Anything toward the shared fence is a complete waste of time since any agreements become irrelevant when it comes to covering costs. You will have to pay upfront and won’t get a cent back.
Regarding the police, I’m unsure. Maybe start by calling them whenever she loses control, so that if the situation reverses and she calls the police, they are already aware that she can be aggressive.
A tree will be planted in front of the garage window, if necessary in a pot, positioned so that very little light comes in. Only the legally allowed fence will be placed on the boundary, but with the unattractive side facing the neighbors. Anything toward the shared fence is a complete waste of time since any agreements become irrelevant when it comes to covering costs. You will have to pay upfront and won’t get a cent back.
Regarding the police, I’m unsure. Maybe start by calling them whenever she loses control, so that if the situation reverses and she calls the police, they are already aware that she can be aggressive.
Write a letter asking them to stop this harassment, such as unnecessary ringing at night, and issue a ban from the property. I wouldn’t even continue talking to this lady here; it won’t help anyway, and you already have enough examples.
No one can forbid you from watching TV in your house or from talking on your terrace.
This whole situation is simply an outrageous act of rudeness by the lady.
No one can forbid you from watching TV in your house or from talking on your terrace.
This whole situation is simply an outrageous act of rudeness by the lady.
The fence will be at our expense, that is not up for discussion. The issue is solely about the height; despite everything, we will inquire whether we are allowed to exceed the permitted 2m (6.5 feet) or not. If yes, I will have both of them (the Fury’s partner is involved as well, though not seen or heard) sign the plan.
Oh, and what I forgot: for about a month now, they have set up trail cameras in their garden that also monitor our property. Such a camera has a field of view of approximately 170° and they are positioned in a way that also covers our property (quite extensively). So far, we have not commented on this (what would she expect to see besides a cat leaving droppings?). We wanted to casually ask over the fence what exactly they are monitoring and what they have seen so far (and see how they react). That’s the situation with video surveillance… Now I am considering if I should forbid it altogether. According to data protection laws, this is definitely illegal.
If it really comes to the point where we issue a trespassing ban, then installing a surveillance camera ourselves would definitely be worth considering. Because otherwise, how would I prove that they have ignored my ban?
But somehow, I still hope that it won’t escalate that far.
Oh, and what I forgot: for about a month now, they have set up trail cameras in their garden that also monitor our property. Such a camera has a field of view of approximately 170° and they are positioned in a way that also covers our property (quite extensively). So far, we have not commented on this (what would she expect to see besides a cat leaving droppings?). We wanted to casually ask over the fence what exactly they are monitoring and what they have seen so far (and see how they react). That’s the situation with video surveillance… Now I am considering if I should forbid it altogether. According to data protection laws, this is definitely illegal.
If it really comes to the point where we issue a trespassing ban, then installing a surveillance camera ourselves would definitely be worth considering. Because otherwise, how would I prove that they have ignored my ban?
But somehow, I still hope that it won’t escalate that far.
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