ᐅ Fence height adjacent to the neighbor and windows in the boundary wall
Created on: 28 Nov 2019 09:58
C
Climbee
Our dear neighbors… I’ve mentioned this a few times before.
But anyway: both of us (including the neighbors) want a privacy fence between our properties. So far, we had planned to have a landscape gardener propose a garden design, including this privacy fence, and then coordinate it with the neighbors.
A lot has changed since then, and we no longer plan to coordinate; we want to install the tallest possible fence.
As far as I know, I can put up a fence up to 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) high without additional permission.
My question is: from which ground level is this measured? We have a slightly sloped plot, and on the side where the privacy fence is planned, we will not raise the terrain but will extend the terrace into a balcony. So, there will be no retaining wall underneath, just support columns on which this “quasi” balcony will rest.
The height difference to the neighbor’s property should be about 100–110 centimeters (39–43 inches) at the highest point.
Am I allowed to measure the 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) from my (higher) level, or is the natural ground level decisive?
The building permit originally included a retaining wall at this spot, which, as mentioned above, has now been replaced by support columns (this is the current planning stage; if we need a wall to reach the 1.80-meter (5 feet 11 inches) privacy height, we will build one).
Second pain point:
The neighbor’s garage is built on our boundary line, and in the boundary wall there is a window facing our property, which was neither approved nor registered in the land register. This is a standard wooden window that opens. At one time, there were shutters installed that extended onto our property, but now only the brackets remain, which still protrude about 15 centimeters (6 inches) onto our land.
As far as I know, this kind of window should generally meet fire resistance class F90—but I don’t really care; that’s for their fire insurance to sort out.
The protruding shutter brackets bother us because you can catch on them—they’re simply in the way. Also, after a few incidents, we would prefer that this window cannot be opened and that the neighbors can’t look into our yard there (we actually want to create our main terrace in that area).
If the neighborhood were friendly, I wouldn’t mind at all, but here…
In Bavaria, there is a so-called window protection law (Art. 43–45 AGBGB):
Windows and any kind of light openings that are less than 60 centimeters (24 inches) from the property boundary must, at the neighbor’s request, be designed so that up to a height of 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) above the floor level of the lit room (approximately eye level) neither opening nor looking through is possible. When using opaque glass blocks, no impairment to the neighboring property is expected; therefore, exterior walls with such light openings are permitted within the 60-centimeter (24-inch) protection zone.
I also found this:
A peculiarity of the Bavarian regulation is that it depends on the use of the neighboring property. For the owner to invoke the window protection law, their property must be either developed or used as a courtyard or garden. If a previously undeveloped property is later built on, from that point onward the window protection law can be enforced, meaning windows that are located within the boundary distance in exterior walls on the adjacent property must be modified as required by Art. 43 AGBGB at the neighbor’s request.
Does this mean I can demand that the window be modified accordingly?
Can I also plan something in front of the window? The wall looks awful, and as part of the garden design, we will definitely do something there. It won’t come down to me repainting the neighbor’s wall every two years (he unfortunately installed bargeboards on the boundary side with no gutter, so water drips onto the wall causing stains—no matter if we paint it, it will look bad again after two years). To what extent do I have to consider the window? Or could I just put up a wooden fence in front of it?
What can be done about the really obstructive brackets? Are we allowed to simply remove them, or do I have to request the neighbor to do so?
Here is a picture (from long ago – instead of the little trees, our garden furniture is now there *g*), so you can get an idea:
If you look closely, you can see the brackets (we will just leave the fact that the windowsill also protrudes onto our property as it is).
We’re currently planning the garden, so these questions are very urgent right now.
But anyway: both of us (including the neighbors) want a privacy fence between our properties. So far, we had planned to have a landscape gardener propose a garden design, including this privacy fence, and then coordinate it with the neighbors.
A lot has changed since then, and we no longer plan to coordinate; we want to install the tallest possible fence.
As far as I know, I can put up a fence up to 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) high without additional permission.
My question is: from which ground level is this measured? We have a slightly sloped plot, and on the side where the privacy fence is planned, we will not raise the terrain but will extend the terrace into a balcony. So, there will be no retaining wall underneath, just support columns on which this “quasi” balcony will rest.
The height difference to the neighbor’s property should be about 100–110 centimeters (39–43 inches) at the highest point.
Am I allowed to measure the 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) from my (higher) level, or is the natural ground level decisive?
The building permit originally included a retaining wall at this spot, which, as mentioned above, has now been replaced by support columns (this is the current planning stage; if we need a wall to reach the 1.80-meter (5 feet 11 inches) privacy height, we will build one).
Second pain point:
The neighbor’s garage is built on our boundary line, and in the boundary wall there is a window facing our property, which was neither approved nor registered in the land register. This is a standard wooden window that opens. At one time, there were shutters installed that extended onto our property, but now only the brackets remain, which still protrude about 15 centimeters (6 inches) onto our land.
As far as I know, this kind of window should generally meet fire resistance class F90—but I don’t really care; that’s for their fire insurance to sort out.
The protruding shutter brackets bother us because you can catch on them—they’re simply in the way. Also, after a few incidents, we would prefer that this window cannot be opened and that the neighbors can’t look into our yard there (we actually want to create our main terrace in that area).
If the neighborhood were friendly, I wouldn’t mind at all, but here…
In Bavaria, there is a so-called window protection law (Art. 43–45 AGBGB):
Windows and any kind of light openings that are less than 60 centimeters (24 inches) from the property boundary must, at the neighbor’s request, be designed so that up to a height of 1.80 meters (5 feet 11 inches) above the floor level of the lit room (approximately eye level) neither opening nor looking through is possible. When using opaque glass blocks, no impairment to the neighboring property is expected; therefore, exterior walls with such light openings are permitted within the 60-centimeter (24-inch) protection zone.
I also found this:
A peculiarity of the Bavarian regulation is that it depends on the use of the neighboring property. For the owner to invoke the window protection law, their property must be either developed or used as a courtyard or garden. If a previously undeveloped property is later built on, from that point onward the window protection law can be enforced, meaning windows that are located within the boundary distance in exterior walls on the adjacent property must be modified as required by Art. 43 AGBGB at the neighbor’s request.
Does this mean I can demand that the window be modified accordingly?
Can I also plan something in front of the window? The wall looks awful, and as part of the garden design, we will definitely do something there. It won’t come down to me repainting the neighbor’s wall every two years (he unfortunately installed bargeboards on the boundary side with no gutter, so water drips onto the wall causing stains—no matter if we paint it, it will look bad again after two years). To what extent do I have to consider the window? Or could I just put up a wooden fence in front of it?
What can be done about the really obstructive brackets? Are we allowed to simply remove them, or do I have to request the neighbor to do so?
Here is a picture (from long ago – instead of the little trees, our garden furniture is now there *g*), so you can get an idea:
If you look closely, you can see the brackets (we will just leave the fact that the windowsill also protrudes onto our property as it is).
We’re currently planning the garden, so these questions are very urgent right now.
H
hampshire28 Nov 2019 17:25Hey, if both of you want the privacy screen, this could be your first successful project together. Take a look at the height the neighbor suggests.
The relationship with the neighbor sounds quite petty. That’s really unfortunate.
The relationship with the neighbor sounds quite petty. That’s really unfortunate.
She really isn’t all there – to put it politely.
Last Sunday we were watching TV with the window closed. Then one of our cats wanted to come in, and as cats do, it’s “am I coming in or not or maybe yes…”. So I left the sliding door open about 20cm (8 inches) so Demoiselle could decide, and went to the fridge to get a drink. When I came back, so about 1-2 minutes later at most, the neighbor lady was already hanging out the window yelling, “I hear EVERY WORD!!! *screaming shouting*.” I just closed the sliding door again—what was the point? I should be able to open the door even if the TV is on. Neither of us are hard of hearing, and it was at normal room volume. But the way she acted, you would have thought we had a rock band playing at full volume.
Whatever. We’ve come to expect her outbursts by now.
But that wasn’t enough. Shortly after, there was a furious ringing at our door. The neighbor. It was half past eleven, and we really didn’t want to have a conversation with a nagging fury, so we didn’t answer. That’s our right. We do the same with Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, they usually understand quicker that no one is opening. Our neighbor, though, made a terror of noise for at least five minutes or more, banging on the door and window.
My husband opened the door upstairs to listen to what she was saying (which she couldn’t hear from downstairs). It was something like, “They’re STILL watching TV! The TV is still on! They’re still up! Why don’t they open the door! Outrageous!!!” and so on in that tone.
She’s been upset with us the whole time. We’re not allowed to talk outside—“I HEAR EVERY WORD!”—and when the weather is nice, she wants us to keep the windows facing her closed so she’s not disturbed; also, she insists we lower the blinds for privacy.
So she demands, and we’re supposed to comply. We just don’t. So far, we have really tried to be considerate and barely sat outside in summer. It’s no fun when after 10 minutes a screaming woman shows up. But now, we’re done with it and believe that if it bothers her, she should close her windows herself. If they don’t provide soundproofing, that’s not our problem. She’ll just have to put up with normal neighborhood noise—this is standard acoustic emission in a residential area, and she must tolerate it.
That’s why we want to install a privacy fence that offers as much shielding as possible, and after these incidents, we would also prefer to keep the window in the garage closed.
If she ever puts on such a circus again at our front door, we will issue a trespass warning and put this in writing (possibly through a lawyer).
Not pleasant, and unfortunately, she’s not old enough yet to hope for a biological solution to the problem.
Honestly, we’ve never experienced anything like this and have generally gotten along well to very well with all our previous neighbors.
However, I don’t believe a joint project like a “privacy screen” will improve anything here…
Last Sunday we were watching TV with the window closed. Then one of our cats wanted to come in, and as cats do, it’s “am I coming in or not or maybe yes…”. So I left the sliding door open about 20cm (8 inches) so Demoiselle could decide, and went to the fridge to get a drink. When I came back, so about 1-2 minutes later at most, the neighbor lady was already hanging out the window yelling, “I hear EVERY WORD!!! *screaming shouting*.” I just closed the sliding door again—what was the point? I should be able to open the door even if the TV is on. Neither of us are hard of hearing, and it was at normal room volume. But the way she acted, you would have thought we had a rock band playing at full volume.
Whatever. We’ve come to expect her outbursts by now.
But that wasn’t enough. Shortly after, there was a furious ringing at our door. The neighbor. It was half past eleven, and we really didn’t want to have a conversation with a nagging fury, so we didn’t answer. That’s our right. We do the same with Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, they usually understand quicker that no one is opening. Our neighbor, though, made a terror of noise for at least five minutes or more, banging on the door and window.
My husband opened the door upstairs to listen to what she was saying (which she couldn’t hear from downstairs). It was something like, “They’re STILL watching TV! The TV is still on! They’re still up! Why don’t they open the door! Outrageous!!!” and so on in that tone.
She’s been upset with us the whole time. We’re not allowed to talk outside—“I HEAR EVERY WORD!”—and when the weather is nice, she wants us to keep the windows facing her closed so she’s not disturbed; also, she insists we lower the blinds for privacy.
So she demands, and we’re supposed to comply. We just don’t. So far, we have really tried to be considerate and barely sat outside in summer. It’s no fun when after 10 minutes a screaming woman shows up. But now, we’re done with it and believe that if it bothers her, she should close her windows herself. If they don’t provide soundproofing, that’s not our problem. She’ll just have to put up with normal neighborhood noise—this is standard acoustic emission in a residential area, and she must tolerate it.
That’s why we want to install a privacy fence that offers as much shielding as possible, and after these incidents, we would also prefer to keep the window in the garage closed.
If she ever puts on such a circus again at our front door, we will issue a trespass warning and put this in writing (possibly through a lawyer).
Not pleasant, and unfortunately, she’s not old enough yet to hope for a biological solution to the problem.
Honestly, we’ve never experienced anything like this and have generally gotten along well to very well with all our previous neighbors.
However, I don’t believe a joint project like a “privacy screen” will improve anything here…
Tina mit K28 Nov 2019 17:59Oh dear, no one wishes to have neighbors like that. I also think that the privacy screen can’t really be considered a joint project. I would try to isolate myself as much as possible and add lots of greenery so that they can’t see in so easily, and you still have something nice to look at.
Our future neighbors also have many floor-to-ceiling windows, but they can’t look out of any of them because they have pleated blinds fully closed at the top to ensure more privacy.
We don’t have any issues with them at all, but that’s just a habit your “wonderful” neighbor could adopt as well.
Did you build in a gap between houses so that every little thing annoys you? Was she already like that during the construction phase?
Our future neighbors also have many floor-to-ceiling windows, but they can’t look out of any of them because they have pleated blinds fully closed at the top to ensure more privacy.
We don’t have any issues with them at all, but that’s just a habit your “wonderful” neighbor could adopt as well.
Did you build in a gap between houses so that every little thing annoys you? Was she already like that during the construction phase?
That strip of land used to be undeveloped and belonged to my brother, and they never expected a house to be built there. Naturally, they’re not happy about it. I can understand that to some extent.
But she was already arrogant before and went to my mother (next door to where we built) demanding that the strip be mowed because it looks so untidy and her children have hay fever (I don’t understand why she wants the grass mowed then—mowing actually makes hay fever worse). When my brother extensively renovated his old farmhouse, he also temporarily stored building materials there (old bricks, for example, to be reused—so nothing hazardous). She complained about that too, saying it looked awful and so on.
What she really wanted was for no construction to happen at all and for us to create a nice garden for her to look at. She apparently doesn’t consider that my mother, who is almost 80 years old, simply can’t maintain it anymore. For the “I want the grass mowed” demand, it would have been received differently if she had offered to have her children (both teenagers) do it and asked if that would be okay. But no, she just makes demands and believes she has the right to do so.
But she was already arrogant before and went to my mother (next door to where we built) demanding that the strip be mowed because it looks so untidy and her children have hay fever (I don’t understand why she wants the grass mowed then—mowing actually makes hay fever worse). When my brother extensively renovated his old farmhouse, he also temporarily stored building materials there (old bricks, for example, to be reused—so nothing hazardous). She complained about that too, saying it looked awful and so on.
What she really wanted was for no construction to happen at all and for us to create a nice garden for her to look at. She apparently doesn’t consider that my mother, who is almost 80 years old, simply can’t maintain it anymore. For the “I want the grass mowed” demand, it would have been received differently if she had offered to have her children (both teenagers) do it and asked if that would be okay. But no, she just makes demands and believes she has the right to do so.
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boxandroof28 Nov 2019 18:33I wouldn't involve a lawyer in this, otherwise your neighbors might get similar ideas. So far, it seems they are only barking.
I know of other escalation levels in gap site disputes. Now they no longer communicate at all—the construction was a nightmare. I don’t know what’s better.
For joint projects, continue to offer dialogue and make room for their wishes.
I know of other escalation levels in gap site disputes. Now they no longer communicate at all—the construction was a nightmare. I don’t know what’s better.
For joint projects, continue to offer dialogue and make room for their wishes.
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