Development Plan/Restrictions
Plot size: 657 sqm (approx. 23m x 28.5m / 75ft x 94ft)
Slope: Level ground
Site coverage: 0.4
Floor area ratio: 0.8
Boundary building: Garage may be built on the property line
Number of parking spaces: 2 parking spaces
Maximum heights/limits: Ridge height 10m (33ft), eaves height 6m (20ft)
Homeowners’ Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: Urban villa
Basement, floors: No basement, 2 full floors
Number of occupants, age: 2 people, 30 years old, later 2 children
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor:
Office, family use or home office: Family use
Open or closed layout: Open
Traditional or modern construction: Modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: Both
Number of dining seats: 6–8
Fireplace: Yes
Balcony, roof terrace: Balcony
Garage, carport: Double garage
Cistern connected to garden and garage
House Design
Planner: Architect working together with us
What is liked most? Large living/dining area, bay window with garden view, spacious rooms
Estimated price according to architect/planner: Still gathering offers; expected to be between 280k and 300k including the plot
Personal price limit for house including fittings: 350k
Preferred heating technology: Geothermal with probe
Good morning,
I’m reaching out again. We are soon entering the final planning phase. After parting ways 2 ½ months ago with our preferred builder just before signing the contract, we decided to take matters into our own hands. On one hand, to build the house more cost-effectively, and on the other, to tailor it more individually to our wishes without overpaying.
We have already requested and compared quotes for most trades. Some are still missing, for example interior doors, interior and exterior plastering, and stairs. But the shell construction, windows, heating, ventilation, plumbing, carpentry, electrical work, and roofing are already settled.
Soon we would like to submit the building permit application (sometimes called planning permission). Currently, we are finalizing the floor plan with our architect. Since you gave valuable advice a few months ago, I would like to ask for your input again now.
A few notes:
- We have already arranged for the “Sleeping” room on the upper floor to be slightly reduced in favor of the storage room and the children's room in the next plan update.
- The fireplace will be further detailed, and the double door to the living room will be shifted slightly further to the left to enlarge the wall for the living room cabinet.
- The staircase is drawn incorrectly; it should actually be a half-landing staircase.
Notes on the floor plan:
Ground floor:
- Living area: 88.72 sqm (approx. 955 sq ft)
- Usable area: 63.51 sqm (approx. 684 sq ft)
Upper floor:
- Living area: 78.4 sqm (approx. 844 sq ft)
Total:
- Living area: 167.12 sqm (approx. 1,799 sq ft)
- Usable area: 63.51 sqm (approx. 684 sq ft)
I welcome any questions or feedback.
Thank you and best regards,
Michael
Two images have been added to the original thread from the discussion. Regards, Yvonne, Mod
Plot size: 657 sqm (approx. 23m x 28.5m / 75ft x 94ft)
Slope: Level ground
Site coverage: 0.4
Floor area ratio: 0.8
Boundary building: Garage may be built on the property line
Number of parking spaces: 2 parking spaces
Maximum heights/limits: Ridge height 10m (33ft), eaves height 6m (20ft)
Homeowners’ Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: Urban villa
Basement, floors: No basement, 2 full floors
Number of occupants, age: 2 people, 30 years old, later 2 children
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor:
Office, family use or home office: Family use
Open or closed layout: Open
Traditional or modern construction: Modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: Both
Number of dining seats: 6–8
Fireplace: Yes
Balcony, roof terrace: Balcony
Garage, carport: Double garage
Cistern connected to garden and garage
House Design
Planner: Architect working together with us
What is liked most? Large living/dining area, bay window with garden view, spacious rooms
Estimated price according to architect/planner: Still gathering offers; expected to be between 280k and 300k including the plot
Personal price limit for house including fittings: 350k
Preferred heating technology: Geothermal with probe
Good morning,
I’m reaching out again. We are soon entering the final planning phase. After parting ways 2 ½ months ago with our preferred builder just before signing the contract, we decided to take matters into our own hands. On one hand, to build the house more cost-effectively, and on the other, to tailor it more individually to our wishes without overpaying.
We have already requested and compared quotes for most trades. Some are still missing, for example interior doors, interior and exterior plastering, and stairs. But the shell construction, windows, heating, ventilation, plumbing, carpentry, electrical work, and roofing are already settled.
Soon we would like to submit the building permit application (sometimes called planning permission). Currently, we are finalizing the floor plan with our architect. Since you gave valuable advice a few months ago, I would like to ask for your input again now.
A few notes:
- We have already arranged for the “Sleeping” room on the upper floor to be slightly reduced in favor of the storage room and the children's room in the next plan update.
- The fireplace will be further detailed, and the double door to the living room will be shifted slightly further to the left to enlarge the wall for the living room cabinet.
- The staircase is drawn incorrectly; it should actually be a half-landing staircase.
Notes on the floor plan:
Ground floor:
- Living area: 88.72 sqm (approx. 955 sq ft)
- Usable area: 63.51 sqm (approx. 684 sq ft)
Upper floor:
- Living area: 78.4 sqm (approx. 844 sq ft)
Total:
- Living area: 167.12 sqm (approx. 1,799 sq ft)
- Usable area: 63.51 sqm (approx. 684 sq ft)
I welcome any questions or feedback.
Thank you and best regards,
Michael
Two images have been added to the original thread from the discussion. Regards, Yvonne, Mod
Both the hallway and the living room have dance floors that probably cost around €30,000 (about $33,000)... you could often spend that amount going out to a club instead ;-)
The kids' room is unfortunately quite narrow. Sure, it works, but that can’t be the standard for a €300,000 (about $330,000) project.
As an example: we have a room that measures about 3.15 m × 5.7 m (about 10.3 ft × 18.7 ft) — that’s workable — but the adjacent room, measuring 4.2 m × 3.9 m (about 13.8 ft × 12.8 ft), feels much more spacious.
Also, I’m missing details on household connections, heating, and technical installations.
The kids' room is unfortunately quite narrow. Sure, it works, but that can’t be the standard for a €300,000 (about $330,000) project.
As an example: we have a room that measures about 3.15 m × 5.7 m (about 10.3 ft × 18.7 ft) — that’s workable — but the adjacent room, measuring 4.2 m × 3.9 m (about 13.8 ft × 12.8 ft), feels much more spacious.
Also, I’m missing details on household connections, heating, and technical installations.
As mentioned, the plan is not final and can still be changed. That’s why I posted it here—to get feedback and, at the same time, suggestions on how to improve the design.
One of the children’s rooms will be enlarged to at least 2.9m (9.5 feet), and the storage room will also be given a bit more space, as already mentioned in some earlier posts, by reducing the size of the master bedroom, which is currently 21sqm (226 sqft).
The comment about the toilet’s height not matching its width is a good point that should definitely be reconsidered.
I’m not a frustrated building expert; I just find it unfortunate when criticism is given without any suggestions for improvement or without being specific. That doesn’t help me, and I’m here specifically for assistance.
Of course, there will be additional costs because the two bathrooms are not stacked vertically, and the kitchen is located at the other end of the house. But I don’t want to design the entire house solely around plumbing to save costs. I prefer the kitchen to be on the south side, where I can have a view of the garden, and the toilet... where else could it reasonably be placed? Swapping the upstairs bathroom with the master bedroom is an option to have everything closer together again. Is that worth considering?
The utility room is mainly intended for laundry, heating, and technical equipment, with some storage space. Additional storage will be created under the landing of the half-turn staircase, where we will install a small room with a half-height door. The rest will go into the garage. The garage has a trapezoidal shape because the plot itself is quite oddly angled. An alternative would be to align the house along the property boundary, sacrificing part of the backyard at the rear to have a front garden instead, or to keep the garage square and build a dirty utility corner somewhere.
@BeHaElJa
The idea behind the large open area is that the dining room could be moved there later if you want to furnish the bay window differently. My partner would like the dining room to be in the bay window, but I see it more as a cozy corner with armchairs in the future...
One of the children’s rooms will be enlarged to at least 2.9m (9.5 feet), and the storage room will also be given a bit more space, as already mentioned in some earlier posts, by reducing the size of the master bedroom, which is currently 21sqm (226 sqft).
The comment about the toilet’s height not matching its width is a good point that should definitely be reconsidered.
I’m not a frustrated building expert; I just find it unfortunate when criticism is given without any suggestions for improvement or without being specific. That doesn’t help me, and I’m here specifically for assistance.
Of course, there will be additional costs because the two bathrooms are not stacked vertically, and the kitchen is located at the other end of the house. But I don’t want to design the entire house solely around plumbing to save costs. I prefer the kitchen to be on the south side, where I can have a view of the garden, and the toilet... where else could it reasonably be placed? Swapping the upstairs bathroom with the master bedroom is an option to have everything closer together again. Is that worth considering?
The utility room is mainly intended for laundry, heating, and technical equipment, with some storage space. Additional storage will be created under the landing of the half-turn staircase, where we will install a small room with a half-height door. The rest will go into the garage. The garage has a trapezoidal shape because the plot itself is quite oddly angled. An alternative would be to align the house along the property boundary, sacrificing part of the backyard at the rear to have a front garden instead, or to keep the garage square and build a dirty utility corner somewhere.
@BeHaElJa
The idea behind the large open area is that the dining room could be moved there later if you want to furnish the bay window differently. My partner would like the dining room to be in the bay window, but I see it more as a cozy corner with armchairs in the future...
You should have a different architect create a new design within the specified budget, without sticking to the fixed idea of a "town villa" or any preconceived notion of an ideal architecture from the catalogue of prefabricated housing companies. The current design is not suitable and shouldn’t be made worse by misguided attempts to improve it.
A custom house design can achieve much more, even on a tight budget, if approached creatively and open-mindedly. What you usually see in new residential developments is not the standard to aim for.
A custom house design can achieve much more, even on a tight budget, if approached creatively and open-mindedly. What you usually see in new residential developments is not the standard to aim for.
B
Bauexperte27 Nov 2015 14:31Hello,
Best regards, Bauexperte
Invi85 schrieb:Accepting boxed-in installations and noise everywhere, even where they are not wanted? I don’t know, regardless of the extra costs, that wouldn’t be my choice.
But I don’t want to plan my entire house solely around the wiring just because of the costs.
Invi85 schrieb:The architect among us gave you good advice; consult another architect and have them design within your budget. If you just swap the bedroom with the bathroom, the other issues in the plan will remain. I would, for example, place the office/guest room on the garage side and make the living/dining/kitchen/guest restroom area more interesting. Besides that, your initial statement assigns the most attractive side of the plot to a utility room 😕
I prefer the kitchen facing south where I have a view of the garden, and the restroom... where else should it be placed other than there? The only option might be to swap the bathroom upstairs with the master bedroom, so everything could be together again. Is that worth considering?
Invi85 schrieb:That won’t work; your architect should have explained this to you long ago. You have two doors in the room, which is approximately 2.00 m (6.6 ft) deep and 3.50 m (11.5 ft) wide in reality; you can’t put anything directly behind the doors. Even if you plan to install a ground-source heat pump, the indoor unit takes up space, as do the connections for ducts/water/electricity. On top of that, drainage pipes will run overhead, and room for future maintenance of the systems must also be considered. Where exactly will you store laundry and a small shelf then?
The utility room is mainly intended for laundry, heating, and technical equipment with a little storage space.
Invi85 schrieb:You do need that, but you are “buying” it by opting for an expensive landing staircase. That logic is unclear to me. If you have a tight budget, then why not save money sensibly?
Additional storage will be under the landing of the staircase.
Invi85 schrieb:Why a “trash corner”? Don’t your bins—including five types in our case (residual waste, paper, recyclables, and two brown bins for garden waste)—need a place? Besides, with a straight garage you save a lot of money because you can rely on standard prefabricated garage suppliers 😉
We only made the rooms trapezoidal because the plots are awkwardly slanted. An alternative would be to align the house on the boundary, sacrificing part of the rear garden in order to have some garden in the front. Or have the garage set straight and build a trash corner :-
Best regards, Bauexperte
No, we don’t know your calculation or the architect’s, but there are experience-based cost estimates per square meter of living space, whether building in northern rural areas or near Munich.
Flooring and painting are often done by the homeowner even in "turnkey" houses, but the savings are usually limited.
We don’t want to dispute that, but an architect’s design looks a bit different here. This rectangle looks almost amateurish and often appears in unprofessional sketches 😉
... also the child’s room and bathroom... they just seem to have resulted from the layout rather than being intentionally planned.
Unfortunately, this is not about small changes like moving one or two walls to improve the design. What you see here is a classic case where a standard layout was merely scaled by about one meter in width and depth. Since the design has a square floor plan with rooms accessed from a central hallway, the rooms naturally become longer if the layout isn’t broken up or individually tailored to the space program planned.
It’s a shame to read that this is nearly ready for submitting the building permit / planning permission.
Certainly, that should not be the homeowner’s main focus, but for an architect, these are the basics to work with in order to create a design that is both attractive and functional without unnecessary costs or construction work.
A good example: the utility room as drawn is just a pass-through with storage space only in one corner at the front and one at the back. There isn’t even a full wall to place a shelf against.
Overall, except for the office, I don’t see any well-planned doorways that can accommodate a closet behind them: in every room you furnished, you enter facing a closet. This is not an optimal use of living space and doesn’t create a spacious impression, even though a few extra square meters are being used everywhere. The dining area might be the exception – but the table normally won’t be placed in that bay window; it will be arranged more centrally.
The bedrooms barely allow moving walls since the doors also need clearance.
Think about whether you would actually use the utility room and storage as currently planned...
One thing not yet mentioned: personally, I think the vertically elongated windows don’t fit. Also, I wonder what kind of windows these are supposed to be, since there are no lintel reinforcements shown anywhere.
Usually, a slanted plot isn’t a disadvantage. Also... as a building expert already mentioned, there are ways to divide a plot (waste bins, compost, laundry...) Trapezoidal shapes can actually make the plot more uniquely usable.
The garage is oversized in relation to the rest, as @W. Pickartz has already pointed out...
You haven’t just received criticism of the calculation but also a lot of detailed feedback on the design regarding the mistakes made.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Regards, Yvonne
P.S. Reading neighbor threads and other floor plan discussions helps clarify things 🙂
Flooring and painting are often done by the homeowner even in "turnkey" houses, but the savings are usually limited.
Invi85 schrieb:
The chimney has been calculated and only requires additional wall reinforcement.
We don’t want to dispute that, but an architect’s design looks a bit different here. This rectangle looks almost amateurish and often appears in unprofessional sketches 😉
Invi85 schrieb:
Which rooms do you mean by too long and too narrow? I can only see the storage room and the WC that might be candidates.
... also the child’s room and bathroom... they just seem to have resulted from the layout rather than being intentionally planned.
Invi85 schrieb:
As I said, the plan is not final yet and can still be changed.
Invi85 schrieb:
I just find it a shame when criticism is given without any suggestions for improvement.
Unfortunately, this is not about small changes like moving one or two walls to improve the design. What you see here is a classic case where a standard layout was merely scaled by about one meter in width and depth. Since the design has a square floor plan with rooms accessed from a central hallway, the rooms naturally become longer if the layout isn’t broken up or individually tailored to the space program planned.
It’s a shame to read that this is nearly ready for submitting the building permit / planning permission.
Invi85 schrieb:
But I don’t want to plan my entire house solely around installations just because of the costs.
Certainly, that should not be the homeowner’s main focus, but for an architect, these are the basics to work with in order to create a design that is both attractive and functional without unnecessary costs or construction work.
Invi85 schrieb:
The utility room is mainly intended for laundry, heating, technical equipment, and a little storage space.
A good example: the utility room as drawn is just a pass-through with storage space only in one corner at the front and one at the back. There isn’t even a full wall to place a shelf against.
Overall, except for the office, I don’t see any well-planned doorways that can accommodate a closet behind them: in every room you furnished, you enter facing a closet. This is not an optimal use of living space and doesn’t create a spacious impression, even though a few extra square meters are being used everywhere. The dining area might be the exception – but the table normally won’t be placed in that bay window; it will be arranged more centrally.
The bedrooms barely allow moving walls since the doors also need clearance.
Think about whether you would actually use the utility room and storage as currently planned...
One thing not yet mentioned: personally, I think the vertically elongated windows don’t fit. Also, I wonder what kind of windows these are supposed to be, since there are no lintel reinforcements shown anywhere.
Invi85 schrieb:
We only designed them trapezoidal because the plots are so awkwardly angled.
Usually, a slanted plot isn’t a disadvantage. Also... as a building expert already mentioned, there are ways to divide a plot (waste bins, compost, laundry...) Trapezoidal shapes can actually make the plot more uniquely usable.
The garage is oversized in relation to the rest, as @W. Pickartz has already pointed out...
You haven’t just received criticism of the calculation but also a lot of detailed feedback on the design regarding the mistakes made.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Regards, Yvonne
P.S. Reading neighbor threads and other floor plan discussions helps clarify things 🙂
Hello,
I fully agree with Pickartz’s opinion and would advise you to do the same.
Example storage room: 4.5 m (15 feet) aisle for a 3.2 m (10.5 feet) closet
With a door located in the center of the room, a 2 m (6.5 feet) aisle would allow for a 4 m (13 feet) closet.
Example bathroom on the upper floor: With a floor area of 13 m² (140 square feet), only 1.5 m (5 feet) of wall space remains for two washbasins, with one side directly next to the door and the other directly adjacent to a floor-to-ceiling window facing the street.
And which daily use items would you take from a room approximately 1.3 m (4.3 feet) high?
So invest your money wisely and start over.
Olli
I fully agree with Pickartz’s opinion and would advise you to do the same.
Example storage room: 4.5 m (15 feet) aisle for a 3.2 m (10.5 feet) closet
With a door located in the center of the room, a 2 m (6.5 feet) aisle would allow for a 4 m (13 feet) closet.
Example bathroom on the upper floor: With a floor area of 13 m² (140 square feet), only 1.5 m (5 feet) of wall space remains for two washbasins, with one side directly next to the door and the other directly adjacent to a floor-to-ceiling window facing the street.
And which daily use items would you take from a room approximately 1.3 m (4.3 feet) high?
So invest your money wisely and start over.
Olli
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