Hello,
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
toxicmolotow schrieb:
Where do you all live, or do you have to drill through obsidian? Our 100 meters (330 feet) of drilling cost around 5,000 euros.Can you tell me which provider you used for the drilling? Feel free to send me a private message if you can’t mention it here. Or what about others?
I requested two quotes, one from ***Geotherm and one from Bau***** Süd, and ended up with 14,000 and 18,000 euros (the latter was the all-inclusive package).
The first quote included:
Drilling and casing work
Horizontal connection to the building
Distribution shaft
Wall penetration including core drilling
In addition, there would be an appraisal costing about 1,000 euros.
Bookstar schrieb:
I think that’s cool, Tego, especially if you feel confident doing it yourself. But for most people, your solution will be hard to implement since the heating engineer also has to cooperate, and I think many will refuse. How was it for you?As you said, it’s not a solution for the masses. It was my only DIY part of the house; you often want to do something yourself. The 4 days alongside my job were manageable and completely reasonable.
We built with a general contractor (GC) and couldn’t really choose our heating engineer. But we were lucky: we made a clear agreement that I would handle everything up to and including the manifold (the costs included a finished, insulated manifold—my only job was mounting it on the wall and connecting the four brine lines... that was a bit fiddly but took no more than 3 hours). The heating engineer took over from the manifold onwards and took care of everything, including pressure testing. For him, it was exactly the same as connecting to a borehole... He was skeptical at first, but that has since faded... (annual performance factor >5).
Regarding the house entrance... why exactly should that be so expensive? I’m not familiar with boreholes there, but for a horizontal collector: just run the four brine lines inside sewer pipe (two lines per pipe) through the floor slab (or wall in a basement) into the house. Watertight Doyma seals make everything tight (they cost “only” about €120 each, so around €240 total). Everything was installed before the floor slab was poured... retrofitting would certainly be much more complicated.
In the purple forum, however, people in southern Germany and Austria are already reporting many companies offering the horizontal collector as a package deal... for costs well below those of a borehole. You don’t need any expert knowledge, just a mostly undeveloped plot... I wouldn’t want to do that in an existing garden, though.
@Tego: That sounds really good. I didn’t receive any offers at the time and only knew about the drilling... this seems to be a truly more affordable alternative.
@Jana: Your drilling prices are even higher than the ones I mentioned. Which report are you referring to with 1000 euros?
@Jana: Your drilling prices are even higher than the ones I mentioned. Which report are you referring to with 1000 euros?
R
readytorumble20 Mar 2018 08:56We also installed a ground source heat pump with a horizontal collector (7 loops of 80m (260 feet) each).
We planned and installed it ourselves. We simply did it over two evenings while the excavator was on site anyway. It’s not complicated at all, quite the opposite.
You just need enough space in the garden. We required about 350m² (3,770 square feet) for this.
The most complex part was the shaft for the manifold. We built it with solid masonry and made it fairly large (2 x 1.5m (6.5 x 5 feet)) because we knew it would be tricky to connect the 14 brine pipes to the manifold. The PE pipes are quite stiff and difficult to handle.
Costs: Since everything was done entirely by ourselves (my partner’s brother trained as a plumbing and heating technician) and we received BAFA funding, the ground source heat pump only cost us slightly more than an air-to-water heat pump (about €2,000).
The seasonal performance factor so far is 4.7 (we have a heat meter), and according to the heat pump itself, the seasonal performance factor is well above 5.
We were very curious whether you can “see” where the horizontal collectors are in the garden during the first winter. You often read that snow melts later there, etc. – at least in our case, this was not true. We had a lot of snow to observe this year.
Two couples we know are also experiencing their first winter in new homes and have air-to-water heat pumps. Both had their electric backup heaters running almost all day this winter because we had daytime temperatures around -10°C (14°F) for extended periods (even colder at night).
We planned and installed it ourselves. We simply did it over two evenings while the excavator was on site anyway. It’s not complicated at all, quite the opposite.
You just need enough space in the garden. We required about 350m² (3,770 square feet) for this.
The most complex part was the shaft for the manifold. We built it with solid masonry and made it fairly large (2 x 1.5m (6.5 x 5 feet)) because we knew it would be tricky to connect the 14 brine pipes to the manifold. The PE pipes are quite stiff and difficult to handle.
Costs: Since everything was done entirely by ourselves (my partner’s brother trained as a plumbing and heating technician) and we received BAFA funding, the ground source heat pump only cost us slightly more than an air-to-water heat pump (about €2,000).
The seasonal performance factor so far is 4.7 (we have a heat meter), and according to the heat pump itself, the seasonal performance factor is well above 5.
We were very curious whether you can “see” where the horizontal collectors are in the garden during the first winter. You often read that snow melts later there, etc. – at least in our case, this was not true. We had a lot of snow to observe this year.
Two couples we know are also experiencing their first winter in new homes and have air-to-water heat pumps. Both had their electric backup heaters running almost all day this winter because we had daytime temperatures around -10°C (14°F) for extended periods (even colder at night).
readytorumble schrieb:
We also have a ground source heat pump with a horizontal collector (7 loops of 80m (260 feet) each).
We planned and installed it ourselves. We just did it over two evenings while the excavator was on site anyway. It’s not rocket science, quite the opposite.
You just need enough space in the garden. We used about 350m² (3,770 sq ft) for it.
.Respect for doing it yourself, but I wouldn’t feel confident attempting that...
So, apples should be compared with apple prices.
@Bookstar: In our municipality, a water law assessment is required before you do any drilling.
Does anyone have recommendations for companies that offer drilling and collectors as a package and are more affordable?
M
Mastermind120 Mar 2018 09:12Jana33 schrieb:
Hats off to you for doing that yourself, but I wouldn’t trust myself to do it...
So, apples should be compared with apples in terms of prices.
@Bookstar: In our municipality, a water rights assessment is required before you start drilling.
Does anyone know companies that offer drilling and collector installation as a package and might be cheaper?An affordable drilling company was once advertised in the newspaper here.My brother had drilling done with that provider – and had no issues. He received quotes ranging from €8,000 to €16,000. The drilling was about 2 times 80 meters (2 times 260 feet).
Determining liability in such accidents is always difficult. However, if you live in an area with anhydrite layers, I would avoid such drilling. Even though, according to the current state of the art, nothing should go wrong.
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