Hello,
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
M
Micha&Dany26 Aug 2012 07:34Hello Voko
Well, you should definitely think carefully about costs and benefits. But there are limits to everything. It simply comes down to the right balance, as is often the case in life.
You’ll have to explain that statement in more detail! Which prices for which types of energy are overpriced, why, and by how much?
That statement also needs some explanation! What exactly is immature, in what way, and where?
Best regards
Micha
voko schrieb:
I completely agree. The terms of use change over time anyway. Always this cost-benefit calculation. All just theory and deception.
Well, you should definitely think carefully about costs and benefits. But there are limits to everything. It simply comes down to the right balance, as is often the case in life.
voko schrieb:
At the moment, prices for renewable energy are overpriced anyway.
You’ll have to explain that statement in more detail! Which prices for which types of energy are overpriced, why, and by how much?
voko schrieb:
And what do you get for it? Partly immature technology!
That statement also needs some explanation! What exactly is immature, in what way, and where?
Best regards
Micha
P
perlenmann26 Aug 2012 07:51Micha&Dany schrieb:
What exactly is immature and where?? I would say the user Voko!
No idea, but just banning the usual bar-room clichés!
Quote Dieter Nuhr: If you have no clue, just keep your mouth shut!
E
Energiefuxx28 Aug 2012 11:20The heat pump industry always does its best to promote heat pumps, although these are basically just converted electric heating elements that are more expensive to purchase. Efficient heating systems today are somewhat larger solar thermal systems with a large buffer tank, ideally using an aqua-drain solar system. (Those who want to overwinter also need a basement—this applies to potatoes as well.) The heat distribution system should be a capillary tube system with flow temperatures between 24° and 28°C (75°F and 82°F). For domestic hot water, a temperature of 40–42°C (104°F–108°F) is sufficient. Several acquaintances on the Baltic Sea coast are more than satisfied with the systems from AGRITEC-Solar.
Energiefuxx
Energiefuxx
Energiefuxx, I think you’re generalizing too much here.
I believe that for each construction project, it’s important to carefully evaluate and calculate which system is practical and cost-effective. Unfortunately, energy isn’t as easy to store as potatoes! You really need to consider several alternatives (there are many—for example, ice storage systems) and if you don’t have much expertise yourself, it’s best to consult a professional.
That aside, I’m quite confident that heat pumps can be economically viable for a wide range of building projects (depending on the location, solar energy alone may simply not be sufficient). By the way, an electric heating element can produce at most 1 kWh of heat per kWh of electricity, whereas heat pumps can generate 4 to 5 kWh of heat per kWh of electricity depending on the system. If you look around online, you’ll find several sites where private users share their data logs and electricity consumption for their pumps, which is very informative.
I believe that for each construction project, it’s important to carefully evaluate and calculate which system is practical and cost-effective. Unfortunately, energy isn’t as easy to store as potatoes! You really need to consider several alternatives (there are many—for example, ice storage systems) and if you don’t have much expertise yourself, it’s best to consult a professional.
That aside, I’m quite confident that heat pumps can be economically viable for a wide range of building projects (depending on the location, solar energy alone may simply not be sufficient). By the way, an electric heating element can produce at most 1 kWh of heat per kWh of electricity, whereas heat pumps can generate 4 to 5 kWh of heat per kWh of electricity depending on the system. If you look around online, you’ll find several sites where private users share their data logs and electricity consumption for their pumps, which is very informative.
E
Energiefuxx28 Aug 2012 14:34Saruss, of course every system needs to be properly calculated. It also depends on the region, the condition of the building, and the type of usage. However, the common issue with solar technology is this: when you ask five heating contractors, you get six different opinions. Then the conclusion is often that solar thermal simply doesn’t work. Customer asks: Why not? The heating contractor replies: Because we can’t get such a large storage tank through the door.
This is how it goes in about 80% of cases, and then the recommendation is usually what the installer has been pushed to promote by their supplier. Solar packages from well-known “brand manufacturers” combined with the support of a heat pump. Good sales for the installer, but not particularly efficient for the customer.
This is how it goes in about 80% of cases, and then the recommendation is usually what the installer has been pushed to promote by their supplier. Solar packages from well-known “brand manufacturers” combined with the support of a heat pump. Good sales for the installer, but not particularly efficient for the customer.
That’s why you don’t ask the heating contractors first, but should look for good solutions independently of the manufacturer and the heating specialist. In new construction, the door isn’t really an issue if planned properly. But basically, I agree with you that there are certainly some companies for whom “it’s warm enough in winter” is sufficient.
Similar topics