Hello,
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
€uro schrieb:
Today or in 15...20 years?
Until then: good work
v.g.It depends on what money is still worth in 15–20 years. Maybe by then I’ll even accept 100€ per month.
Well-developed air source heat pumps are already available today. Unfortunately, these are rarely found in general contractor / construction management projects because almost any low-quality system is pushed on the uninformed homeowner.Is the Vaillant Geotherm Plus, for example, low quality? I can hardly believe that... hmm
Which systems are considered really good – Vaillant? The exact model names would be helpful, of course... or is that some kind of secret here in the forum?
Hello,
for our building project, we decided to go with an air source heat pump. I asked our construction company to provide the product data and technical details in advance. Besides the expected performance, I was also concerned about the noise level, since it should not disturb us or our neighbors when we want it warm.
We chose an air source heat pump with an operating limit down to -25°C (-13°F). It is recommended for a living area of up to 300 sqm (about 3,230 sq ft) — we need to heat 140 sqm (about 1,507 sq ft). The noise level is specified as a maximum of 39 dB, which is quite “quiet.” I have seen other models with noise levels around 60–90 dB.
As for the running costs, I can’t say yet since the house isn’t finished, but I am quite optimistic about it…
Best regards, Britta
for our building project, we decided to go with an air source heat pump. I asked our construction company to provide the product data and technical details in advance. Besides the expected performance, I was also concerned about the noise level, since it should not disturb us or our neighbors when we want it warm.
We chose an air source heat pump with an operating limit down to -25°C (-13°F). It is recommended for a living area of up to 300 sqm (about 3,230 sq ft) — we need to heat 140 sqm (about 1,507 sq ft). The noise level is specified as a maximum of 39 dB, which is quite “quiet.” I have seen other models with noise levels around 60–90 dB.
As for the running costs, I can’t say yet since the house isn’t finished, but I am quite optimistic about it…
Best regards, Britta
Britta78 schrieb:
....We decided on an air source heat pump with an operating range down to -25° Celsius (−13°F). It is recommended for a usable floor area of up to 300 sqm (3,229 sq ft), and we need to supply 140 sqm (1,507 sq ft). What heating load was calculated? Oversizing has particularly negative effects on air source heat pumps.Britta78 schrieb:
....I can’t say anything about consumption costs yet because the house is not finished ... The system will have to prove itself during the screed drying phase.For air source heat pumps, external heat meters for heating and domestic hot water separately are recommended. This allows for consumption assessment => COP or seasonal performance factor. They are also very useful for optimizing system settings. The typical factory settings usually need to be adjusted to the specific conditions of the individual building project.
Best regards
Micha&Dany schrieb:
Hello Euro!
It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who is "obsessed" with "my" topics
What use is it to know the consumption in advance?
Apart from, of course, the correct sizing of the heating system.
And with a gas condensing boiler, it seems you can't really go too wrong with the design, right?
Whether my monthly cost is 50 euros or 500, I have to live with it (that is, assuming I've done everything necessary to optimize the heating system). I still won't give up on building the house because of that...
You can't compare a small rental apartment to my house. Starting with the fact that I have no idea whether I will run the controlled ventilation system in summer or not – that alone causes a 50% variance in the ventilation system’s electricity consumption...
When I finally have a proper bathroom with a proper bathtub – how often will I (and especially my wife) take baths in winter? Probably more often than now—but how often exactly??
Will we really use the wood stove as often as I imagine now? And if so, how much will it heat the upper floors? Or will I be completely dependent on the gas boiler up there?
These are all small questions I can’t answer beforehand—but they can significantly affect my overall energy costs...
Best regards!
MichaI completely agree. Usage habits change over time anyway. Always these cost-benefit calculations. It’s all just theory and wishful thinking. Currently, prices for renewable energy systems are way too high anyway. And what do you get for that? Sometimes unfinished technology! Better to rely on proven technology. But definitely plan for a later upgrade to "new" technology (empty conduit pipes or similar).
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