ᐅ Gas Heating + Solar & Controlled Ventilation or Air-to-Water Heat Pump Energy Saving Regulation 2016
Created on: 21 Apr 2018 11:26
F
Filstal
Hello everyone,
Since I am quite new here, I would like to provide some background information about my situation. Please excuse any gaps in my knowledge in advance, and I am happy to provide further details if needed.
I own a fairly flat plot of land with 400 sqm (4,305 sq ft) (gas connection available), on which a KfW 70 energy-efficient solid brick single-family house with a slab foundation (no basement) is planned. The house will have approximately 134 sqm (1,442 sq ft) of living space and 144 sqm (1,550 sq ft) of total floor area, spread over 1.5 stories. It will have a gable roof with a 30° pitch and a knee wall height of 1.50 m (4.9 ft). Due to a nearby railway line, increased sound insulation is required, so the exterior walls must be constructed with a thickness of 36.5 cm (14.4 inches).
The build will be carried out by a local general contractor who has provided me with two offers as follows:
Offer 1: Thermo solid masonry blocks S9, 36.5 cm (14.4 inches) thick, enhanced insulation in the roof/attic, a gas condensing wall boiler type Viessmann VITODENS 200-W with a 500-liter (132-gallon) storage tank, and Viessmann VITOSOL 200-F flat plate solar collectors. Controlled ventilation with heat recovery is provided by four decentralized ventilation units, along with standard compact radiators throughout the house. Airtightness testing will be performed using a blower door test. This build will comply with the Energy Saving Ordinance 2014 including the 2016 tightening.
Offer 2: Thermo solid masonry blocks SX 10, 36.5 cm (14.4 inches) thick, Bartl air-to-water compact heat pump ECO 3-6 LCI for indoor installation with an 800-liter (211-gallon) storage tank. Underfloor heating throughout the entire house. Vento ventilation systems installed at all windows and patio doors in living areas. Prepared for a future photovoltaic system installation. This build will comply with the Energy Saving Ordinance 2016.
In terms of price, the second offer is exactly €3,000 more expensive, which is offset by the gas connection cost required for the first offer.
Since I am quite uncertain about which heating system would be the, let’s say carefully, "better" option for this house and more economical in the long run, I would like to ask for your recommendations here. My secondary question is whether the compact heat pump makes sense or if a split system from the same manufacturer would be a better choice?
I do not want to start a general debate about whether gas or air-to-water heat pumps are better and am specifically focusing only on the air-to-water heat pump.
My general contractor is clearly leaning towards the air-to-water heat pump. Here is a link to the technical data of the air-to-water heat pump.
Best regards,
Filstal
Since I am quite new here, I would like to provide some background information about my situation. Please excuse any gaps in my knowledge in advance, and I am happy to provide further details if needed.
I own a fairly flat plot of land with 400 sqm (4,305 sq ft) (gas connection available), on which a KfW 70 energy-efficient solid brick single-family house with a slab foundation (no basement) is planned. The house will have approximately 134 sqm (1,442 sq ft) of living space and 144 sqm (1,550 sq ft) of total floor area, spread over 1.5 stories. It will have a gable roof with a 30° pitch and a knee wall height of 1.50 m (4.9 ft). Due to a nearby railway line, increased sound insulation is required, so the exterior walls must be constructed with a thickness of 36.5 cm (14.4 inches).
The build will be carried out by a local general contractor who has provided me with two offers as follows:
Offer 1: Thermo solid masonry blocks S9, 36.5 cm (14.4 inches) thick, enhanced insulation in the roof/attic, a gas condensing wall boiler type Viessmann VITODENS 200-W with a 500-liter (132-gallon) storage tank, and Viessmann VITOSOL 200-F flat plate solar collectors. Controlled ventilation with heat recovery is provided by four decentralized ventilation units, along with standard compact radiators throughout the house. Airtightness testing will be performed using a blower door test. This build will comply with the Energy Saving Ordinance 2014 including the 2016 tightening.
Offer 2: Thermo solid masonry blocks SX 10, 36.5 cm (14.4 inches) thick, Bartl air-to-water compact heat pump ECO 3-6 LCI for indoor installation with an 800-liter (211-gallon) storage tank. Underfloor heating throughout the entire house. Vento ventilation systems installed at all windows and patio doors in living areas. Prepared for a future photovoltaic system installation. This build will comply with the Energy Saving Ordinance 2016.
In terms of price, the second offer is exactly €3,000 more expensive, which is offset by the gas connection cost required for the first offer.
Since I am quite uncertain about which heating system would be the, let’s say carefully, "better" option for this house and more economical in the long run, I would like to ask for your recommendations here. My secondary question is whether the compact heat pump makes sense or if a split system from the same manufacturer would be a better choice?
I do not want to start a general debate about whether gas or air-to-water heat pumps are better and am specifically focusing only on the air-to-water heat pump.
My general contractor is clearly leaning towards the air-to-water heat pump. Here is a link to the technical data of the air-to-water heat pump.
Best regards,
Filstal
Alex85 schrieb:
Just read one sentence further [emoji4]I did, but I didn’t realize those were supposed to be the reasons. [emoji4] It sounded more like an addition to other, more significant, technical reasons, hence the question. [emoji6]Has the original poster already made a decision?
We are currently having a hard time choosing between gas plus solar and an air-to-water heat pump.
Both options have several advantages and disadvantages that cannot be overlooked. Initially, we were clearly leaning towards the air-to-water heat pump, but by now there are almost too many points speaking against it.
We are currently having a hard time choosing between gas plus solar and an air-to-water heat pump.
Both options have several advantages and disadvantages that cannot be overlooked. Initially, we were clearly leaning towards the air-to-water heat pump, but by now there are almost too many points speaking against it.
Lobster schrieb:
Both options have several advantages and disadvantages that cannot be ignored. At the beginning, the tendency was clearly towards an air-to-water heat pump – but by now, there are almost too many reasons against it.Out of curiosity: what would those be for you?Besides the higher initial cost, we are particularly concerned about the noise level of the outdoor unit.
If we want to position the fan sensibly, it needs to be installed about 10 m (33 feet) away from the utility room. This also means additional effort. And if the two neighboring plots are developed in the future, I’m not sure whether the 50-60 dB could cause problems. Even with soundproofing, which would cost an extra €2,000, there would still be around 30 dB remaining. We have looked at/listened to reference devices – it’s not terribly loud, but it’s not exactly pleasant either.
Since the alternative geothermal heat is unfortunately no longer within the budget, we feel like we are getting “neither fish nor fowl.”
We have chosen a good insulation package and high-quality windows, so the underfloor heating should not have a very high gas consumption. For hot water, there would also be 5 m² (54 sq ft) of solar panels on the roof.
Overall, we feel that we have to make too many compromises for the extra effort and additional costs.
If we want to position the fan sensibly, it needs to be installed about 10 m (33 feet) away from the utility room. This also means additional effort. And if the two neighboring plots are developed in the future, I’m not sure whether the 50-60 dB could cause problems. Even with soundproofing, which would cost an extra €2,000, there would still be around 30 dB remaining. We have looked at/listened to reference devices – it’s not terribly loud, but it’s not exactly pleasant either.
Since the alternative geothermal heat is unfortunately no longer within the budget, we feel like we are getting “neither fish nor fowl.”
We have chosen a good insulation package and high-quality windows, so the underfloor heating should not have a very high gas consumption. For hot water, there would also be 5 m² (54 sq ft) of solar panels on the roof.
Overall, we feel that we have to make too many compromises for the extra effort and additional costs.
No, we have not yet made a final decision on which heating system to choose, but we aim to decide by next week. I am also aware that both offers can still be improved, but of course, that would involve higher investments, and we already have limits on that.
A timber frame house generally has lower sound insulation compared to a comparable solid/concrete house, right? Or am I no longer up to date with the current technology?
The underfloor heating included in offer 1 is certainly feasible, but according to our general contractor, it would cost approximately €7000-9000 (around $7500-9700) more. I have already considered this option as well.
I also contacted the manufacturer Bartl by phone. The 800-liter (210-gallon) storage tank apparently consists of a 190-liter (50-gallon) boiler and a 610-liter (160-gallon) buffer tank. This buffer tank is intended to be used exclusively with the air-to-water heat pump.
@ Lobster: In your case, a floor-mounted indoor air-to-water heat pump might be the better choice compared to the split system. That way, the issue with the noisy fan and the external appearance would at least be resolved.
A timber frame house generally has lower sound insulation compared to a comparable solid/concrete house, right? Or am I no longer up to date with the current technology?
The underfloor heating included in offer 1 is certainly feasible, but according to our general contractor, it would cost approximately €7000-9000 (around $7500-9700) more. I have already considered this option as well.
I also contacted the manufacturer Bartl by phone. The 800-liter (210-gallon) storage tank apparently consists of a 190-liter (50-gallon) boiler and a 610-liter (160-gallon) buffer tank. This buffer tank is intended to be used exclusively with the air-to-water heat pump.
@ Lobster: In your case, a floor-mounted indoor air-to-water heat pump might be the better choice compared to the split system. That way, the issue with the noisy fan and the external appearance would at least be resolved.
What are your thoughts for and/or against this?
We should make a decision by next weekend. Normally, I’m quite straightforward with these things—I weigh the options and then commit. Admittedly, I’m finding it difficult to decide between gas + solar or an air-to-water heat pump.
Whether gas will still be considered appropriate in many years is uncertain. I’m also bothered by solar panels on the roof because of the less-than-ideal placement in our case. The overall concept of the air-to-water heat pump as offered, along with the resulting additional costs, only partially convinces us.
We had actually already made up our minds until the topic of the air-to-water heat pump came up again, and now we’re making things difficult for ourselves.
We should make a decision by next weekend. Normally, I’m quite straightforward with these things—I weigh the options and then commit. Admittedly, I’m finding it difficult to decide between gas + solar or an air-to-water heat pump.
Whether gas will still be considered appropriate in many years is uncertain. I’m also bothered by solar panels on the roof because of the less-than-ideal placement in our case. The overall concept of the air-to-water heat pump as offered, along with the resulting additional costs, only partially convinces us.
We had actually already made up our minds until the topic of the air-to-water heat pump came up again, and now we’re making things difficult for ourselves.
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