ᐅ Who has built a house with an architect? Any experiences to share?
Created on: 13 Aug 2015 21:29
X
xycrazy
Hello everyone,
Until yesterday, we were basically agreed that we wanted to work with a reputable local builder for a turnkey project. However, after receiving the new price update yesterday, we were shocked. It is €30,000 to €40,000 (about $32,000 to $43,000) higher than what was initially quoted to us in the last conversation—even though we are now saving several thousand euros on other costs like excavation, disposal, and the basement due to new circumstances. We are looking at costs of around €1782 per square meter (about $165 per square foot) of heated living space, including the basement and all additional construction costs, but excluding utility connection fees and a double garage for €25,000 (with rooftop terrace). This seems quite high to me. Of course, the builder has an excellent reputation, which we verified, but I’m afraid we are paying a premium for that.
That said, we are now so frustrated that we are considering whether it might be better to work with an architect instead. The advantages in our view would be full cost transparency in the offers, more flexibility, and a better house design tailored to our preferences in terms of appearance. The disadvantages would be the architect’s fee and the lack of price certainty compared to a fixed-price contract. However, there is some hope that it might turn out cheaper—or at least that for the same budget we would get a higher standard, such as a full basement instead of just a partial one, and so on.
I would therefore appreciate hearing about your experiences with architects. Have you worked with them, and if so, how did it go? Did you stay within budget? If not, what was the reason? And if you decided against using an architect, what led to that decision? Perhaps some of you had contact with architects but some aspects put you off? I am open to all feedback.
Thank you!
Best regards
Until yesterday, we were basically agreed that we wanted to work with a reputable local builder for a turnkey project. However, after receiving the new price update yesterday, we were shocked. It is €30,000 to €40,000 (about $32,000 to $43,000) higher than what was initially quoted to us in the last conversation—even though we are now saving several thousand euros on other costs like excavation, disposal, and the basement due to new circumstances. We are looking at costs of around €1782 per square meter (about $165 per square foot) of heated living space, including the basement and all additional construction costs, but excluding utility connection fees and a double garage for €25,000 (with rooftop terrace). This seems quite high to me. Of course, the builder has an excellent reputation, which we verified, but I’m afraid we are paying a premium for that.
That said, we are now so frustrated that we are considering whether it might be better to work with an architect instead. The advantages in our view would be full cost transparency in the offers, more flexibility, and a better house design tailored to our preferences in terms of appearance. The disadvantages would be the architect’s fee and the lack of price certainty compared to a fixed-price contract. However, there is some hope that it might turn out cheaper—or at least that for the same budget we would get a higher standard, such as a full basement instead of just a partial one, and so on.
I would therefore appreciate hearing about your experiences with architects. Have you worked with them, and if so, how did it go? Did you stay within budget? If not, what was the reason? And if you decided against using an architect, what led to that decision? Perhaps some of you had contact with architects but some aspects put you off? I am open to all feedback.
Thank you!
Best regards
S
Steffen8015 Aug 2015 17:59xycrazy schrieb:
Thanks for your reports. Doesn’t sound very encouraging. After speaking with three architects yesterday, all of whom quoted well above our budget, we decided to drop the idea. With an architect, you simply won’t get below 500,000 euros for the size of our house. That doesn’t make sense for us, no matter how flexible we are with the choice of building materials. So we’ll rather reconsider our requirements and possibly make the house a bit smaller.
The best architect was the one who said he only builds KFW40 standard homes because it’s worth it in any case... but of course only with wood because that’s the best material and totally healthy... when asked about the exterior wall construction regarding insulation, he said he fully relies on polystyrene... oh well... so totally healthy. My impression is that many architects are simply out of touch with reality. Most are some kind of eco-idealists who want to realize themselves in the project but completely ignore the client’s needs. A pity.
RegardsSorry... but that’s complete nonsense!!! You clearly talked to the wrong people. We also had many offers from general contractors, and at first they were naturally cheaper. But on closer inspection, they quickly turned out to be just as expensive or even more expensive.
You forget that the architect purchases services only once, while the general contractor (GC) or developer contracts the same trades multiple times.
Furthermore, the architect is paid according to a fee structure similar to HOAI, which is about 10-12% of the construction cost – this fee is spread by the developer over several projects. It’s a mixed calculation.
In addition, with multiple construction sites, the trades can be negotiated down in price, especially for the shell construction, which is a significant factor.
And certainly the biggest advantage: the GC/developer carries out work with their own trades, meaning they can complete these tasks more cheaply than if they had to buy the services externally. This last point doesn’t apply to everyone, but it was the case for those we spoke with. This creates synergies that the architect cannot take advantage of.
Furthermore, the architect is paid according to a fee structure similar to HOAI, which is about 10-12% of the construction cost – this fee is spread by the developer over several projects. It’s a mixed calculation.
In addition, with multiple construction sites, the trades can be negotiated down in price, especially for the shell construction, which is a significant factor.
And certainly the biggest advantage: the GC/developer carries out work with their own trades, meaning they can complete these tasks more cheaply than if they had to buy the services externally. This last point doesn’t apply to everyone, but it was the case for those we spoke with. This creates synergies that the architect cannot take advantage of.
Steffen80 schrieb:
Sorry..but this is complete nonsense!!! You definitely talked to the wrong people. We also had many offers from general contractors, and at first they were of course always cheaper. But on closer inspection, they quickly turned out to be just as expensive or even more costly.Then you must have talked to the wrong people... we also had several offers from prefab home builders that were above the architect’s price, no question. But you have to compare apples to apples. If I want to build with solid construction and the architect says that timber frame construction is cheaper, that may be true—but it’s not what I want, nor what can be fairly compared on price. In total, we have now spoken with 7 architects. Every single one told us that they cannot meet the quoted price. Our general contractor isn’t a budget option but enjoys an excellent reputation here and has been in business for 30 years. Strange that all architects (unfortunately) were higher priced.
T
toxicmolotof15 Aug 2015 18:08Even a general contractor must have structural engineering and related documents for each individual construction project. They either purchase these services or have staff on payroll.
Architects, after their studies, design exactly one house and then move on.
However, architects regularly oversee house construction and maintain contacts with several shell builders, repeatedly hiring them for suitable projects. So, they know the market well and receive better offers than if just anyone requests quotes.
But since you think you know everything, why are you still asking?
Architects, after their studies, design exactly one house and then move on.
However, architects regularly oversee house construction and maintain contacts with several shell builders, repeatedly hiring them for suitable projects. So, they know the market well and receive better offers than if just anyone requests quotes.
But since you think you know everything, why are you still asking?
Maybe because I really wanted your opinion… oh no… actually not!
I asked because I’m interested in the experiences. I also believe that other architects are cheaper than general contractors. That hardly surprises me. But the seven I spoke to were not. So either those architects had high standards, or our general contractor gave us a good price – both are possible.
I asked because I’m interested in the experiences. I also believe that other architects are cheaper than general contractors. That hardly surprises me. But the seven I spoke to were not. So either those architects had high standards, or our general contractor gave us a good price – both are possible.
Also keep in mind that the general contractor and the architect will probably not differ that much in the end. The architect charges for the planning, while Elma, according to their financial report, earns about 30,000 euros (around 30,000 US dollars) per house (and installs 5! electrical outlets in the living room -.-).
What you also shouldn’t forget is that an architect provides a different level of planning quality (I have noticed in some areas that we lack some professional planning to reach perfection—nothing dramatic, but quite a few minor details).
What you also shouldn’t forget is that an architect provides a different level of planning quality (I have noticed in some areas that we lack some professional planning to reach perfection—nothing dramatic, but quite a few minor details).
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