ᐅ Approach for Initial Contact with Developers and Prefabricated Home Providers
Created on: 26 Mar 2021 16:33
B
Baumeister86B
Baumeister8626 Mar 2021 16:33Hello everyone,
I have been browsing this forum on and off for several weeks now, but I haven’t really found what I’m looking for yet.
Specifically, we are two people (soon three in autumn) searching for our own property in the Berlin metropolitan area. Stable net income, equity available for the plot...
Existing properties are not so easy to find, as there seems to be hardly anything suitable on the market (neither too old nor with a garden so small you can hardly turn around – after all, we want to move “out” of Berlin partly for this reason).
So the topic of building a house (single-family home) came up.
We are already looking for a plot in the east of Berlin (Erkner, Rüdersdorf, etc.) or the north (Oranienburg, Bernau), as well as around Potsdam/Falkensee. Good public transport connection to the center of Berlin is very important, and nothing close to BER Airport (we already notice aircraft noise even though we officially are not even in a flight path).
My gut feeling tells me that for someone inexperienced in construction, a building project with an architect who takes responsibility is better than working with a large company. Or in other words, as a first-time home builder, you basically have to rely on them blindly, don’t you?
Now we come to the “core of the problem”: almost all plots are sold through turnkey home providers.
Posts here on the forum and elsewhere on the internet warn about “binding contracts” that only allow changes against disproportionately high surcharges, and offers where the fine print is crucial.
If I understand correctly, with these comprehensive providers, it is always recommended to have an independent surveyor/construction supervisor involved before signing a contract.
However, we are still one step before that: How do you recognize the bad actors during the first meetings? What are important questions to ask in an initial conversation?
These companies are probably all good at selling themselves, but what questions can help separate the wheat from the chaff?
And of course, also very welcome: What experiences have you had with general contractors in Berlin? Who would you recommend? Who does their job well even without a constant additional external construction supervisor?
Thank you very much and best regards,
Stephan
I have been browsing this forum on and off for several weeks now, but I haven’t really found what I’m looking for yet.
Specifically, we are two people (soon three in autumn) searching for our own property in the Berlin metropolitan area. Stable net income, equity available for the plot...
Existing properties are not so easy to find, as there seems to be hardly anything suitable on the market (neither too old nor with a garden so small you can hardly turn around – after all, we want to move “out” of Berlin partly for this reason).
So the topic of building a house (single-family home) came up.
We are already looking for a plot in the east of Berlin (Erkner, Rüdersdorf, etc.) or the north (Oranienburg, Bernau), as well as around Potsdam/Falkensee. Good public transport connection to the center of Berlin is very important, and nothing close to BER Airport (we already notice aircraft noise even though we officially are not even in a flight path).
My gut feeling tells me that for someone inexperienced in construction, a building project with an architect who takes responsibility is better than working with a large company. Or in other words, as a first-time home builder, you basically have to rely on them blindly, don’t you?
Now we come to the “core of the problem”: almost all plots are sold through turnkey home providers.
Posts here on the forum and elsewhere on the internet warn about “binding contracts” that only allow changes against disproportionately high surcharges, and offers where the fine print is crucial.
If I understand correctly, with these comprehensive providers, it is always recommended to have an independent surveyor/construction supervisor involved before signing a contract.
However, we are still one step before that: How do you recognize the bad actors during the first meetings? What are important questions to ask in an initial conversation?
These companies are probably all good at selling themselves, but what questions can help separate the wheat from the chaff?
And of course, also very welcome: What experiences have you had with general contractors in Berlin? Who would you recommend? Who does their job well even without a constant additional external construction supervisor?
Thank you very much and best regards,
Stephan
Baumeister86 schrieb:
It is important to have good public transport connections to the center of Berlin and nothing close to BER airport (we can already hear the aircraft noise even though we are officially not within the flight path). Welcome to the forum,
what you are planning sounds good.
The first step is looking for land,
many people have similar wishes, including the conditions you mentioned.
Visit the areas you are interested in and start your search; there are “for sale” signs, real estate agents, and also your own notices on streetlights, visible unoccupied houses—talk to people working in gardens or on fences.
Here you’ve mixed two aspects rather than just linking them: the search for a plot of land (possibly tied to a developer) and the common pitfalls for laypeople in construction and scope of work descriptions.
I generally always recommend an architect—except, of course, when dealing with a developer—with one minor exception: if you yourself, the plot and the development plan are "easy to manage or uncomplicated," and the references of the general contractor come from a reliable source, then the risk of going with a catalog house has probably already been survived. A medium-sized company (owner-managed, for example with around three dozen permanent employees) is preferable to a small firm backed by a franchise with large marketing and legal departments (and often little else behind them).
My warnings regarding the offer of a "land service" apply to construction contracts that are contingent on it as well as to option-only sales. However, there are indeed reputable developer offers (no proof, but a strong indication is when the provider can name the exact plot address). If the plot is honestly claimed as their property, there is no reason for evasions here.
By searching for the keyword "11ant Barthel" in the forum, you will find my tips on how to find the land—or “backstock”—yourself.
If you (A) find a plot on your own, you can plan with an architect and should also assign them to the detailed planning and tendering following the building permit, as well as later construction supervision. Even with tendering, you may work with a general contractor, but with a self-appointed architect, you also let them manage the construction. If you (B) find a plot tied to a developer, an expert for construction monitoring is recommended—however, be careful: some developers reject this. If you (C) approach a general contractor with a self-found plot and feel ready to build one of their catalog houses, then hiring an expert for construction supervision is also advisable. So, I see three viable routes but advise against the fourth: (D) the combination of "general contractor and individual planning, but with their in-house planner aka draftsman." Because in this case, "little sins are punished immediately"—here with drywall chases hiding pipes placed aesthetically poorly in random corners under the motto "anything not forbidden is allowed."
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Baumeister86 schrieb:
My gut feeling tells me that for a construction novice, a building project with an architect who takes responsibility is better than going with a large company. Or in other words, as an inexperienced homebuyer, you basically have to trust blindly? [...]
If I understand correctly, these full-service providers always recommend bringing in an independent expert/site manager before signing the contract.
I generally always recommend an architect—except, of course, when dealing with a developer—with one minor exception: if you yourself, the plot and the development plan are "easy to manage or uncomplicated," and the references of the general contractor come from a reliable source, then the risk of going with a catalog house has probably already been survived. A medium-sized company (owner-managed, for example with around three dozen permanent employees) is preferable to a small firm backed by a franchise with large marketing and legal departments (and often little else behind them).
Baumeister86 schrieb:
That brings us to the "core of the problem": Almost all plots are sold through prefab home providers. Posts here in the forum and elsewhere on the web warn about "restrictive contracts" that allow changes only against disproportionately high surcharges, and offers where it all depends on the fine print.
My warnings regarding the offer of a "land service" apply to construction contracts that are contingent on it as well as to option-only sales. However, there are indeed reputable developer offers (no proof, but a strong indication is when the provider can name the exact plot address). If the plot is honestly claimed as their property, there is no reason for evasions here.
By searching for the keyword "11ant Barthel" in the forum, you will find my tips on how to find the land—or “backstock”—yourself.
If you (A) find a plot on your own, you can plan with an architect and should also assign them to the detailed planning and tendering following the building permit, as well as later construction supervision. Even with tendering, you may work with a general contractor, but with a self-appointed architect, you also let them manage the construction. If you (B) find a plot tied to a developer, an expert for construction monitoring is recommended—however, be careful: some developers reject this. If you (C) approach a general contractor with a self-found plot and feel ready to build one of their catalog houses, then hiring an expert for construction supervision is also advisable. So, I see three viable routes but advise against the fourth: (D) the combination of "general contractor and individual planning, but with their in-house planner aka draftsman." Because in this case, "little sins are punished immediately"—here with drywall chases hiding pipes placed aesthetically poorly in random corners under the motto "anything not forbidden is allowed."
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Baumeister86 schrieb:
The posts here in the forum and also elsewhere on the internet all warn about "lock-in contracts" that only allow changes with disproportionately high surcharges, and offers where the fine print is crucial. No. These are not lock-in contracts, but tied contracts. It is not a warning either, but rather an indication that this leads to higher property transfer tax.
Baumeister86 schrieb:
If I understand correctly, with these full-service providers it is always recommended to involve an external expert/supervisor before signing the contract. That applies in general to any house purchase or construction: get expert advice if you don’t have the expertise yourself.
Baumeister86 schrieb:
Now we are still one step before that: How can you spot the bad actors during the initial meetings? What are important questions to ask in a first conversation? Basically, trust your gut feeling: a well-organized seller who doesn’t make promises or pressure you, but can competently answer questions, can already be placed on the positive list.
I have already gained quite a bit of experience in Berlin, but not with general contractors (GCs). 😉 However, there are regional and even national providers operating there, and not all of them are bad.
If I had to mention one key point regarding GCs or, in this case, probably the actual property developer when the land and house are sold together, it would be transparency. The reputable ones provide a detailed construction specification, sometimes even meticulously prepared lists of additional costs, which then become part of the contract. Of course, checking reputation or reviews is advisable if possible, but that goes without saying.
Additionally, I want to point out that when the land is tied to a GC, usually the property transfer tax must be paid on both the land and the house. Therefore, you should carefully consider this in your cost calculations, as it can quickly result in additional expenses in the five-figure range.
If I had to mention one key point regarding GCs or, in this case, probably the actual property developer when the land and house are sold together, it would be transparency. The reputable ones provide a detailed construction specification, sometimes even meticulously prepared lists of additional costs, which then become part of the contract. Of course, checking reputation or reviews is advisable if possible, but that goes without saying.
Additionally, I want to point out that when the land is tied to a GC, usually the property transfer tax must be paid on both the land and the house. Therefore, you should carefully consider this in your cost calculations, as it can quickly result in additional expenses in the five-figure range.
ypg schrieb:
No. These are not tied contracts, but linked contracts. It is not warned against beforehand, but rather there is a note that a higher property transfer tax must then be paid. Actually – I think the original poster wasn’t referring to the fact that when buying a future existing property from a developer, property transfer tax is also paid on the building. This follows from the nature of the inseparable contractual object involved. As a linked transaction, this only applies when the developer offers the buyer the land and the construction contract separately (but linked, so that the land alone cannot be purchased). Reputable developers often offer properties where nothing needs to be linked, but where the finished overall object, the “developed land,” is sold – just as was common in the past – even though nowadays construction is often delayed for two main reasons until the buyer has committed. What the original poster seemed to mean, however, was indeed a tied contract, where access to the “free” “land service” is only possible by signing a construction contract, which can only be terminated again through a hefty penalty. This relies on the hope that the customer overestimates their chances with Russian roulette (thinking they might be lucky enough that the land specified as a condition in the construction contract will not be found, allowing them to exit the contract without compensation). This rarely succeeds – while some might be fooled, the devil is less easily tricked.
K1300S schrieb:
The good ones have a clear building specification, possibly even detailed options price lists that become part of the contract. I assume you mean special features catalogs, like those sometimes mentioned here on the forum, for example by Wengerter. However, as far as I know, Wengerter builds almost exclusively in Hesse, and for Werner I only found projects in Berlin – but not a current one – and none in Brandenburg. At the end of January, we were discussing a Brale project here, which was in Petershagen, and they also appear to be active in other areas around Berlin/Potsdam.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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