ᐅ Who has built a house with an architect? Any experiences to share?
Created on: 13 Aug 2015 21:29
X
xycrazy
Hello everyone,
Until yesterday, we were basically agreed that we wanted to work with a reputable local builder for a turnkey project. However, after receiving the new price update yesterday, we were shocked. It is €30,000 to €40,000 (about $32,000 to $43,000) higher than what was initially quoted to us in the last conversation—even though we are now saving several thousand euros on other costs like excavation, disposal, and the basement due to new circumstances. We are looking at costs of around €1782 per square meter (about $165 per square foot) of heated living space, including the basement and all additional construction costs, but excluding utility connection fees and a double garage for €25,000 (with rooftop terrace). This seems quite high to me. Of course, the builder has an excellent reputation, which we verified, but I’m afraid we are paying a premium for that.
That said, we are now so frustrated that we are considering whether it might be better to work with an architect instead. The advantages in our view would be full cost transparency in the offers, more flexibility, and a better house design tailored to our preferences in terms of appearance. The disadvantages would be the architect’s fee and the lack of price certainty compared to a fixed-price contract. However, there is some hope that it might turn out cheaper—or at least that for the same budget we would get a higher standard, such as a full basement instead of just a partial one, and so on.
I would therefore appreciate hearing about your experiences with architects. Have you worked with them, and if so, how did it go? Did you stay within budget? If not, what was the reason? And if you decided against using an architect, what led to that decision? Perhaps some of you had contact with architects but some aspects put you off? I am open to all feedback.
Thank you!
Best regards
Until yesterday, we were basically agreed that we wanted to work with a reputable local builder for a turnkey project. However, after receiving the new price update yesterday, we were shocked. It is €30,000 to €40,000 (about $32,000 to $43,000) higher than what was initially quoted to us in the last conversation—even though we are now saving several thousand euros on other costs like excavation, disposal, and the basement due to new circumstances. We are looking at costs of around €1782 per square meter (about $165 per square foot) of heated living space, including the basement and all additional construction costs, but excluding utility connection fees and a double garage for €25,000 (with rooftop terrace). This seems quite high to me. Of course, the builder has an excellent reputation, which we verified, but I’m afraid we are paying a premium for that.
That said, we are now so frustrated that we are considering whether it might be better to work with an architect instead. The advantages in our view would be full cost transparency in the offers, more flexibility, and a better house design tailored to our preferences in terms of appearance. The disadvantages would be the architect’s fee and the lack of price certainty compared to a fixed-price contract. However, there is some hope that it might turn out cheaper—or at least that for the same budget we would get a higher standard, such as a full basement instead of just a partial one, and so on.
I would therefore appreciate hearing about your experiences with architects. Have you worked with them, and if so, how did it go? Did you stay within budget? If not, what was the reason? And if you decided against using an architect, what led to that decision? Perhaps some of you had contact with architects but some aspects put you off? I am open to all feedback.
Thank you!
Best regards
G
gutberaten27 Dec 2015 01:28Hi,
it is probably not possible to fully answer whether it is better to build with an architect or a general contractor (GC). However, I feel that those who are just starting often lack the information needed to get an independent overview. I’m not allowed to post links here, but there are some good informational events worth considering. On one hand, there are homeowners’ associations that offer many informational events and helpful literature, especially on building law. Additionally, the architectural chambers in each federal state provide information for builders. Unfortunately, the websites of these architectural chambers vary in quality, so it’s worth checking not only the one in your own state but also those of other states.
I would also recommend looking at association websites, the typical ones being the BDA (Association of German Architects), Bund Deutscher Baumeister, or VfA. In principle, architects work for the client under the HOAI (official scale of fees for services by architects and engineers) and are therefore independent, whereas the GC operates with a profit motive. This could be compared to an independent insurance broker versus one who works directly for an insurance company or a bank and therefore has an interest in selling their products regardless of whether better options exist.
Only those registered in the architectural chamber may call themselves architects; otherwise, they are certified engineers. To be registered in the chamber, proof of certificates and professional experience must be provided, and continuing education is required annually with evidence submitted to the chamber. This is similar to tax advisors. How effective all this is can be debated.
Regarding costs, regardless of which trade you ultimately plan and build with, I would recommend adding at least 30% on top, as exact calculations are usually difficult to make when a build takes 1 to 3 years. I have experience with both trades and would only build with an architect from now on. In the end, they negotiate the prices with the craftsmen and so you recover your costs. Why? If the workers or companies do their job well, they can expect follow-up contracts from the architect.
it is probably not possible to fully answer whether it is better to build with an architect or a general contractor (GC). However, I feel that those who are just starting often lack the information needed to get an independent overview. I’m not allowed to post links here, but there are some good informational events worth considering. On one hand, there are homeowners’ associations that offer many informational events and helpful literature, especially on building law. Additionally, the architectural chambers in each federal state provide information for builders. Unfortunately, the websites of these architectural chambers vary in quality, so it’s worth checking not only the one in your own state but also those of other states.
I would also recommend looking at association websites, the typical ones being the BDA (Association of German Architects), Bund Deutscher Baumeister, or VfA. In principle, architects work for the client under the HOAI (official scale of fees for services by architects and engineers) and are therefore independent, whereas the GC operates with a profit motive. This could be compared to an independent insurance broker versus one who works directly for an insurance company or a bank and therefore has an interest in selling their products regardless of whether better options exist.
Only those registered in the architectural chamber may call themselves architects; otherwise, they are certified engineers. To be registered in the chamber, proof of certificates and professional experience must be provided, and continuing education is required annually with evidence submitted to the chamber. This is similar to tax advisors. How effective all this is can be debated.
Regarding costs, regardless of which trade you ultimately plan and build with, I would recommend adding at least 30% on top, as exact calculations are usually difficult to make when a build takes 1 to 3 years. I have experience with both trades and would only build with an architect from now on. In the end, they negotiate the prices with the craftsmen and so you recover your costs. Why? If the workers or companies do their job well, they can expect follow-up contracts from the architect.
gutberaten schrieb:
.,,building with an architect..., If the workers/companies do their job well, you can expect follow-up contracts from the architect.Oh, not with the general contractor (GC) then???
And the architect is not interested in profit because they are paid according to HOAI ?!
S
Sebastian7927 Dec 2015 07:31Which single-family house construction takes longer than a year?
And how easily people talk about the 30% buffer – with today’s prices, that’s simply not feasible under normal circumstances. We only had about a 5% buffer (which really wasn’t much), half of which was for the photovoltaic system that I just gave up on yesterday.
And how easily people talk about the 30% buffer – with today’s prices, that’s simply not feasible under normal circumstances. We only had about a 5% buffer (which really wasn’t much), half of which was for the photovoltaic system that I just gave up on yesterday.
S
Sebastian7927 Dec 2015 08:24But this is certainly less about architect-designed construction itself... we will be involved for 12 months (including the basement), which is related to the self-performed work.
Similar topics