ᐅ Who has built a house with an architect? Any experiences to share?
Created on: 13 Aug 2015 21:29
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xycrazyHello everyone,
Until yesterday, we were basically agreed that we wanted to work with a reputable local builder for a turnkey project. However, after receiving the new price update yesterday, we were shocked. It is €30,000 to €40,000 (about $32,000 to $43,000) higher than what was initially quoted to us in the last conversation—even though we are now saving several thousand euros on other costs like excavation, disposal, and the basement due to new circumstances. We are looking at costs of around €1782 per square meter (about $165 per square foot) of heated living space, including the basement and all additional construction costs, but excluding utility connection fees and a double garage for €25,000 (with rooftop terrace). This seems quite high to me. Of course, the builder has an excellent reputation, which we verified, but I’m afraid we are paying a premium for that.
That said, we are now so frustrated that we are considering whether it might be better to work with an architect instead. The advantages in our view would be full cost transparency in the offers, more flexibility, and a better house design tailored to our preferences in terms of appearance. The disadvantages would be the architect’s fee and the lack of price certainty compared to a fixed-price contract. However, there is some hope that it might turn out cheaper—or at least that for the same budget we would get a higher standard, such as a full basement instead of just a partial one, and so on.
I would therefore appreciate hearing about your experiences with architects. Have you worked with them, and if so, how did it go? Did you stay within budget? If not, what was the reason? And if you decided against using an architect, what led to that decision? Perhaps some of you had contact with architects but some aspects put you off? I am open to all feedback.
Thank you!
Best regards
Until yesterday, we were basically agreed that we wanted to work with a reputable local builder for a turnkey project. However, after receiving the new price update yesterday, we were shocked. It is €30,000 to €40,000 (about $32,000 to $43,000) higher than what was initially quoted to us in the last conversation—even though we are now saving several thousand euros on other costs like excavation, disposal, and the basement due to new circumstances. We are looking at costs of around €1782 per square meter (about $165 per square foot) of heated living space, including the basement and all additional construction costs, but excluding utility connection fees and a double garage for €25,000 (with rooftop terrace). This seems quite high to me. Of course, the builder has an excellent reputation, which we verified, but I’m afraid we are paying a premium for that.
That said, we are now so frustrated that we are considering whether it might be better to work with an architect instead. The advantages in our view would be full cost transparency in the offers, more flexibility, and a better house design tailored to our preferences in terms of appearance. The disadvantages would be the architect’s fee and the lack of price certainty compared to a fixed-price contract. However, there is some hope that it might turn out cheaper—or at least that for the same budget we would get a higher standard, such as a full basement instead of just a partial one, and so on.
I would therefore appreciate hearing about your experiences with architects. Have you worked with them, and if so, how did it go? Did you stay within budget? If not, what was the reason? And if you decided against using an architect, what led to that decision? Perhaps some of you had contact with architects but some aspects put you off? I am open to all feedback.
Thank you!
Best regards
Hello xycrazy,
We are currently working on the construction plans with our architect, and what can I say? It is taking a very long time. The specialized planners and involved contractors have taken their time, and now with the holiday season, it continues like this. Originally, we wanted to have our house ready this year (roof, windows). But from what I can tell now, that will be tight. Paper is very patient at the moment, and the interfaces between parties are too slow.
Among other things, the costs have become a significant issue. Not because they have risen much higher than expected. No, having certainty with a fixed price is comfortable. When we talk to a lender now, we can still only provide rough estimated costs from the architect. That’s not ideal.
Our main reason for choosing an architect, as you mentioned, was the flexibility and the hoped-for higher standard. Currently, we are paying for this with the downsides mentioned above.
Best regards!
We are currently working on the construction plans with our architect, and what can I say? It is taking a very long time. The specialized planners and involved contractors have taken their time, and now with the holiday season, it continues like this. Originally, we wanted to have our house ready this year (roof, windows). But from what I can tell now, that will be tight. Paper is very patient at the moment, and the interfaces between parties are too slow.
Among other things, the costs have become a significant issue. Not because they have risen much higher than expected. No, having certainty with a fixed price is comfortable. When we talk to a lender now, we can still only provide rough estimated costs from the architect. That’s not ideal.
Our main reason for choosing an architect, as you mentioned, was the flexibility and the hoped-for higher standard. Currently, we are paying for this with the downsides mentioned above.
Best regards!
S
Steffen8014 Aug 2015 12:47We are currently starting with the detailed design planning. I am curious to see if everything will work out financially. So far, there is only an estimate: 1600 EUR per square meter (approximately 160 USD per square foot) plus additional costs, as well as all architectural and engineering services.
Hello,
we worked with an architect and structural engineer for the stages 6–9 of the project. I don’t think it gets any cheaper than that. However, it all depends on the cost calculation, which ideally should not be based solely on price per square meter. If that calculation is accurate, you can stay within budget, especially if you allow some buffer for extras. That worked very well for us. The billing for additional work was straightforward and very transparent thanks to unit price contracts. The costs for architectural and engineering services are inevitable anyway. It’s just that developers or general contractors usually distribute those costs across everything. The projects I know all had to deal with very tedious disputes over additional or reduced costs, which were very stressful and didn’t move the planning forward at all.
Personally, I believe that for a complex construction like a single-family house, you can’t name a fixed price. Many factors are still unknown at the time of signing the contract. Also, some general contractors are unwilling at a certain point to include the color of the last molding or the type of dowels in the scope of work.
Regards,
Ronny
we worked with an architect and structural engineer for the stages 6–9 of the project. I don’t think it gets any cheaper than that. However, it all depends on the cost calculation, which ideally should not be based solely on price per square meter. If that calculation is accurate, you can stay within budget, especially if you allow some buffer for extras. That worked very well for us. The billing for additional work was straightforward and very transparent thanks to unit price contracts. The costs for architectural and engineering services are inevitable anyway. It’s just that developers or general contractors usually distribute those costs across everything. The projects I know all had to deal with very tedious disputes over additional or reduced costs, which were very stressful and didn’t move the planning forward at all.
Personally, I believe that for a complex construction like a single-family house, you can’t name a fixed price. Many factors are still unknown at the time of signing the contract. Also, some general contractors are unwilling at a certain point to include the color of the last molding or the type of dowels in the scope of work.
Regards,
Ronny
Thank you for your reports. It doesn’t sound very promising. After speaking with three architects yesterday, all of whom came in well above our budget, we have decided to abandon the idea. With an architect, you simply can’t get below €500,000 for the size of our house. That doesn’t make sense for us, no matter how flexible we are with the choice of building materials. We’d rather reconsider our requirements and possibly make the house a bit smaller.
The best architect was the one who said he only builds to KfW40 standard, as that is definitely worthwhile… but of course only with wood, because that is the best material and totally healthy… when asked about the exterior wall construction regarding insulation, he said he relies entirely on polystyrene… oh, right… so that’s totally healthy. My impression is that many architects are simply out of touch with reality. Most are some kind of eco idealists who want to fulfill themselves through the project but end up designing completely without considering the client’s needs. What a pity.
Best regards
The best architect was the one who said he only builds to KfW40 standard, as that is definitely worthwhile… but of course only with wood, because that is the best material and totally healthy… when asked about the exterior wall construction regarding insulation, he said he relies entirely on polystyrene… oh, right… so that’s totally healthy. My impression is that many architects are simply out of touch with reality. Most are some kind of eco idealists who want to fulfill themselves through the project but end up designing completely without considering the client’s needs. What a pity.
Best regards
T
toxicmolotof15 Aug 2015 17:48We worked with an architect and were satisfied. I think it largely depends on who you end up with. We also encountered some that we didn’t get along with.
After submitting the building permit / planning permission applications, we spoke with general contractors, and not a single one offered a lower price than the architect’s cost estimate.
Or do you think a general contractor can work magic? They also have to source their services and materials somewhere.
In this respect, I find it confusing that architects and general contractors have such different cost estimates or quotes.
In the end, everyone builds with the same materials and the same workforce, and the price tends to come out the same. Anything else should—and must—make you suspicious.
But do you really believe
After submitting the building permit / planning permission applications, we spoke with general contractors, and not a single one offered a lower price than the architect’s cost estimate.
Or do you think a general contractor can work magic? They also have to source their services and materials somewhere.
In this respect, I find it confusing that architects and general contractors have such different cost estimates or quotes.
In the end, everyone builds with the same materials and the same workforce, and the price tends to come out the same. Anything else should—and must—make you suspicious.
But do you really believe
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