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supernana15 Apr 2016 17:50Hello,
we are just at the very beginning of our house planning process, and we don’t have a plot of land yet. However, we want to inform ourselves early about the different options that could lead us to our dream home. Our rough plan is a single-family house either with about 140 sqm (1,500 sq ft) plus a basement or with a larger living area but no basement (of course, this depends on costs and also on the plot of land, etc.). Our planned budget is roughly 250,000 euros (without land, without additional acquisition costs, without later planned expansions).
Basically, it should be a very modern house, but not a designer house with unusual architecture. Rather simple, clean lines with optimal use of space. Now we face the choice between a prefab house (but definitely solid construction), an architect, or a property developer. Regarding own work, we have thought about doing some of the classic tasks ourselves: painting, flooring, and landscaping, as well as interior work on the roof space and, if applicable, the basement over time. We are still relatively young, both securely employed (civil servants, actually^^), and both expect noticeable salary increases in the foreseeable future. Therefore, we do not plan to do everything immediately but possibly postpone some things, especially since we don’t yet need the full space of the house for the two of us. Initially, the basic structure plus a finished ground floor and first floor would basically be enough.
We already have specific ideas about the floor plan. Some prefab house providers come quite close, but I find the prices sometimes really outrageous, especially since with almost all providers not all costs are included and additional expenses due to material selections are not yet considered. The costs for a few additional electrical outlets alone are really shocking (my partner is a tech enthusiast, so we need quite a few outlets). Also, I dread the idea of random subcontractors building our house. I would prefer to work with smaller local companies that are easy to reach. Moreover, I imagine it is generally more flexible to contract individual trades separately, to contribute own work, and to respond to circumstances that only become apparent during construction. Not to mention the possibility to conduct an exact price comparison for each trade among different providers. A friend of ours is currently doing a full renovation and is very knowledgeable. The price differences he has negotiated are truly amazing.
We must say, we are complete novices when it comes to construction and have no knowledge of the subject. However, we have some experienced contacts, are absolutely willing to learn, and like to keep control over offers and such. We are also already certain that, regardless of the path we choose, we want to hire an external expert who supervises the individual construction steps (such as TÜV, DEKRA, or similar).
Does it even make sense to hire an architect for a “simple” single-family house without the costs getting out of hand? Is it manageable for laypersons to commission an architect for planning, obtaining the building permit (planning permission / building permit), etc., contract the respective trades themselves, and hire an external construction supervisor? With a property developer or prefab house, the company also wants to make a profit, which I could presumably save with an architect. But then the architect will probably be comparatively more expensive than a standard house, and I might have to pay a bit more for a smaller craftsmen company than for the crew of a prefab house provider who installs many houses of the same kind.
I know I can’t get a definitive consultation here, but I would be grateful for experiences from homeowners who were in a similar situation, recommendations regarding property developers or architects in the region, or whether a prefab house provider might actually be the most sensible alternative.
So many questions, but I guess everyone who has ever started planning from scratch began like this.
Many thanks in advance and sorry for the long text^^
we are just at the very beginning of our house planning process, and we don’t have a plot of land yet. However, we want to inform ourselves early about the different options that could lead us to our dream home. Our rough plan is a single-family house either with about 140 sqm (1,500 sq ft) plus a basement or with a larger living area but no basement (of course, this depends on costs and also on the plot of land, etc.). Our planned budget is roughly 250,000 euros (without land, without additional acquisition costs, without later planned expansions).
Basically, it should be a very modern house, but not a designer house with unusual architecture. Rather simple, clean lines with optimal use of space. Now we face the choice between a prefab house (but definitely solid construction), an architect, or a property developer. Regarding own work, we have thought about doing some of the classic tasks ourselves: painting, flooring, and landscaping, as well as interior work on the roof space and, if applicable, the basement over time. We are still relatively young, both securely employed (civil servants, actually^^), and both expect noticeable salary increases in the foreseeable future. Therefore, we do not plan to do everything immediately but possibly postpone some things, especially since we don’t yet need the full space of the house for the two of us. Initially, the basic structure plus a finished ground floor and first floor would basically be enough.
We already have specific ideas about the floor plan. Some prefab house providers come quite close, but I find the prices sometimes really outrageous, especially since with almost all providers not all costs are included and additional expenses due to material selections are not yet considered. The costs for a few additional electrical outlets alone are really shocking (my partner is a tech enthusiast, so we need quite a few outlets). Also, I dread the idea of random subcontractors building our house. I would prefer to work with smaller local companies that are easy to reach. Moreover, I imagine it is generally more flexible to contract individual trades separately, to contribute own work, and to respond to circumstances that only become apparent during construction. Not to mention the possibility to conduct an exact price comparison for each trade among different providers. A friend of ours is currently doing a full renovation and is very knowledgeable. The price differences he has negotiated are truly amazing.
We must say, we are complete novices when it comes to construction and have no knowledge of the subject. However, we have some experienced contacts, are absolutely willing to learn, and like to keep control over offers and such. We are also already certain that, regardless of the path we choose, we want to hire an external expert who supervises the individual construction steps (such as TÜV, DEKRA, or similar).
Does it even make sense to hire an architect for a “simple” single-family house without the costs getting out of hand? Is it manageable for laypersons to commission an architect for planning, obtaining the building permit (planning permission / building permit), etc., contract the respective trades themselves, and hire an external construction supervisor? With a property developer or prefab house, the company also wants to make a profit, which I could presumably save with an architect. But then the architect will probably be comparatively more expensive than a standard house, and I might have to pay a bit more for a smaller craftsmen company than for the crew of a prefab house provider who installs many houses of the same kind.
I know I can’t get a definitive consultation here, but I would be grateful for experiences from homeowners who were in a similar situation, recommendations regarding property developers or architects in the region, or whether a prefab house provider might actually be the most sensible alternative.
So many questions, but I guess everyone who has ever started planning from scratch began like this.
Many thanks in advance and sorry for the long text^^
As an architect, I firmly believe that an architect should take the lead in a house construction project, someone capable of considering the individual wishes of the client from the very beginning and using them as the basis for a personalized design. This may also include the selection of a suitable plot of land, whose topography and planning regulations (building permit/planning permission or § 34 of the Building Code) influence the type, scope, and costs of the design. Given the amounts paid today for an average single-family house with standard features and size, as a client I expect a unique design rather than choosing from a model home portfolio of a prefab house supplier, where even minor changes to the established concept are heavily charged.
The architect acts as the guardian of your interests, taking responsibility for the professional, timely, and cost-effective implementation of the construction project and is also liable for this. In return, the architect receives a fee based on the HOAI (official scale of fees for architects and engineers) and the attributable construction costs. This fee "only explodes" if the client’s wishes and ideas become excessively extensive and the project reaches significant financial and structural dimensions.
Furthermore, the architect handles all phases of the project from the first sketches to site supervision and the final acceptance of the completed building—provided they are commissioned for this—so that you basically have no organizational involvement in the execution, apart from consulting the architect regularly, making decisions, approving services, and of course, paying invoices. The architect issues individual tenders for construction services and determines suitable contractors through a tendering process. The ultimate decision to commission a company based on their offer, the preliminary selection, and the architect’s recommendation lies with you. This is, for example, a major and fundamental difference compared to the practice of general contractors (GCs), general planners, and prefab house suppliers, whose crews sometimes travel from afar or come from subcontractor arrangements that are hard to track.
What I strongly advise against is hiring an architect only for the design and building permit application, and then taking over all other phases of tendering and construction yourself. You lack the knowledge, experience, skills, and especially the time for this. Although this might save planning costs upfront, in the end it often results in quality losses, construction defects, schedule overruns, and considerable stress.
Even any work you plan to do yourself should be pre-planned and coordinated by the architect since subsequent trades rely on these works in terms of quality and timing.
Ultimately, it is recommended to simply find one or more architecture firms and attend a free initial consultation. Besides professional qualifications and the right design style, the personal chemistry must also be right from the start. After all, you will be communicating quite closely and meeting frequently over a period of 9–12 months. Even during the sometimes challenging and not entirely conflict-free planning and construction phases, it should still be enjoyable.
The architect acts as the guardian of your interests, taking responsibility for the professional, timely, and cost-effective implementation of the construction project and is also liable for this. In return, the architect receives a fee based on the HOAI (official scale of fees for architects and engineers) and the attributable construction costs. This fee "only explodes" if the client’s wishes and ideas become excessively extensive and the project reaches significant financial and structural dimensions.
Furthermore, the architect handles all phases of the project from the first sketches to site supervision and the final acceptance of the completed building—provided they are commissioned for this—so that you basically have no organizational involvement in the execution, apart from consulting the architect regularly, making decisions, approving services, and of course, paying invoices. The architect issues individual tenders for construction services and determines suitable contractors through a tendering process. The ultimate decision to commission a company based on their offer, the preliminary selection, and the architect’s recommendation lies with you. This is, for example, a major and fundamental difference compared to the practice of general contractors (GCs), general planners, and prefab house suppliers, whose crews sometimes travel from afar or come from subcontractor arrangements that are hard to track.
What I strongly advise against is hiring an architect only for the design and building permit application, and then taking over all other phases of tendering and construction yourself. You lack the knowledge, experience, skills, and especially the time for this. Although this might save planning costs upfront, in the end it often results in quality losses, construction defects, schedule overruns, and considerable stress.
Even any work you plan to do yourself should be pre-planned and coordinated by the architect since subsequent trades rely on these works in terms of quality and timing.
Ultimately, it is recommended to simply find one or more architecture firms and attend a free initial consultation. Besides professional qualifications and the right design style, the personal chemistry must also be right from the start. After all, you will be communicating quite closely and meeting frequently over a period of 9–12 months. Even during the sometimes challenging and not entirely conflict-free planning and construction phases, it should still be enjoyable.
S
supernana15 Apr 2016 18:41Thanks in advance for the contribution. Basically, I definitely share the same opinion! Those crews that are brought in from all over the country and then never seen again are exactly what puts me off about the prefab home providers. For the typical home builder, however, the question is: Is a house designed by an architect achievable within the stated budget? I know the stereotype that architect-designed houses are always significantly more expensive doesn’t necessarily have to be true, but that is the prevailing perception. And with a limited budget, you really have to weigh things carefully, just as I find it difficult to imagine finding an architect with whom you not only personally connect but who also realistically assesses which of the client’s ideas can be realized and which cannot, while staying within the specified cost framework. For a layperson, it’s obviously more convenient to study a detailed building specification and, if necessary, have it checked by a professional to know what is included and what is not, and then conclude a fixed-price contract with a guaranteed construction timeline.
Aside from that, isn’t the architect’s fee calculated based on the total project value? Meaning, is there really such a strong incentive to stick exactly to the agreed budget or even come in under it? This is not meant as an accusation or suggesting that anything is deliberately done incorrectly. It’s just a question that somehow comes to mind^^
Aside from that, isn’t the architect’s fee calculated based on the total project value? Meaning, is there really such a strong incentive to stick exactly to the agreed budget or even come in under it? This is not meant as an accusation or suggesting that anything is deliberately done incorrectly. It’s just a question that somehow comes to mind^^
My clients finance everything with a limited budget, where additional funding is generally not an option. Therefore, the initial cost estimate and the first draft need to be very realistic. Any responsible architect will handle it this way—any other approach would be counterproductive and could damage their own reputation. General concerns are best resolved through direct conversation with an architect. Unscrupulous individuals exist in every industry. Fixed-price contracts and guaranteed construction timelines may sometimes be just marketing promises that you have to negotiate for—initially, they may seem very appealing. However, a house bought with that kind of security might also be a boring standard model. Take a look at what is being built in most new housing developments and ask yourself if you really want to live like that. As always: no risk, no fun.
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Bauexperte15 Apr 2016 23:18Good evening,
You really gathered all the common stereotypes into your line of argument.
Not every general contractor/general construction company "transports" laborers around—only the very cheap ones; not every architect uses outdated pricing software—only those who have "we've always done it this way" as their guiding principle.
You just need to decide what is more important to you: Do you want to be highly involved or rather less involved during the course of your building project? Both approaches share the fact that overestimating your abilities is not an option; if your judgment worked well in choosing the temporary construction partner, working with local craftsmen, trade-specific selections, and limited adaptations of the original plan will also be successful. The structural engineer may not always want to intervene more or less—that depends on your personal preferences.
With a reputable building partner—regardless of the option—the external expert is always welcome. Likewise, the fixed price is only overridden if you allow yourself to be tempted during the selection of finishes. But both can be negotiated.
Regards,
Bauexperte
supernana schrieb:
These columns that are transported across the country and then never seen again are exactly what really puts me off prefabricated house suppliers.
...
For the "average" home builder, of course, the question arises: Is it possible to build the house with an architect within the mentioned budget? I know that the stereotype "architect-designed houses are always significantly more expensive" doesn’t necessarily have to be true, but that’s the prevailing impression.
You really gathered all the common stereotypes into your line of argument.
Not every general contractor/general construction company "transports" laborers around—only the very cheap ones; not every architect uses outdated pricing software—only those who have "we've always done it this way" as their guiding principle.
You just need to decide what is more important to you: Do you want to be highly involved or rather less involved during the course of your building project? Both approaches share the fact that overestimating your abilities is not an option; if your judgment worked well in choosing the temporary construction partner, working with local craftsmen, trade-specific selections, and limited adaptations of the original plan will also be successful. The structural engineer may not always want to intervene more or less—that depends on your personal preferences.
With a reputable building partner—regardless of the option—the external expert is always welcome. Likewise, the fixed price is only overridden if you allow yourself to be tempted during the selection of finishes. But both can be negotiated.
Regards,
Bauexperte
Hello,
we built our house in Bonn in a new development area with 38 houses (mostly semi-detached). Most were built by different companies, including prefabricated houses, solid construction, architects – everything is represented. Since we have already moved in (along with only 3 other families), we can observe the construction work around us quite well, and you can clearly see differences in speed and cleanliness on the building sites. Just try driving through such a neighborhood several times at different times of day, and most people won’t react negatively if you simply ring the doorbell and ask how satisfied they were with their build.
From my impression, the neighbors who built prefabricated houses with Gussek Haus and Fingerhaus seemed quite satisfied and moved in quickly. I didn’t ask for details, though. We built with Viebrockhaus using solid construction and are also happy. By the way, most of the tradespeople from Viebrockhaus came from within a 200m (650 ft) radius, so they weren’t brought in from the main office near Hamburg. Especially on weekends, homeowners who haven’t moved in yet tend to be around — just strike up a conversation. The company name is always displayed on the construction fences. Incidentally, the names and phone numbers of the homeowners are also usually posted if you are very interested in a particular company…
If your friend is tech-savvy, you might want to read up on the “installation level” in prefabricated houses, to see if it might be worth pulling some cables yourself or mentioning during the planning phase that you’d like to “just make another chiseled groove,” like my husband did…
Best regards
we built our house in Bonn in a new development area with 38 houses (mostly semi-detached). Most were built by different companies, including prefabricated houses, solid construction, architects – everything is represented. Since we have already moved in (along with only 3 other families), we can observe the construction work around us quite well, and you can clearly see differences in speed and cleanliness on the building sites. Just try driving through such a neighborhood several times at different times of day, and most people won’t react negatively if you simply ring the doorbell and ask how satisfied they were with their build.
From my impression, the neighbors who built prefabricated houses with Gussek Haus and Fingerhaus seemed quite satisfied and moved in quickly. I didn’t ask for details, though. We built with Viebrockhaus using solid construction and are also happy. By the way, most of the tradespeople from Viebrockhaus came from within a 200m (650 ft) radius, so they weren’t brought in from the main office near Hamburg. Especially on weekends, homeowners who haven’t moved in yet tend to be around — just strike up a conversation. The company name is always displayed on the construction fences. Incidentally, the names and phone numbers of the homeowners are also usually posted if you are very interested in a particular company…
If your friend is tech-savvy, you might want to read up on the “installation level” in prefabricated houses, to see if it might be worth pulling some cables yourself or mentioning during the planning phase that you’d like to “just make another chiseled groove,” like my husband did…
Best regards
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