Hello dear forum members,
I’m still quite unsure whether it’s better nowadays to build with a developer or with an architect. We are currently gathering house construction offers.
A short introduction about us:
We are currently a household of four. We will purchase the plot from our own funds, including property transfer tax and notary fees (no commission applies). The plot size is about 600 m2 (approximately 6,460 sq ft). The plot is designated as a building site and is fully developed (a building permit / planning permission could be obtained in 3-4 weeks). We only need to arrange the connection to the utility shaft (which is not far away).
Our wishes for the house:
A 1.5-story house (about 120 - 130 m2 (1,290 - 1,400 sq ft)) with a pitched roof, with storage space in the attic.
Upper floor: 3 children’s rooms, bedroom, large bathroom.
Ground floor: open kitchen, dining and living area, guest bathroom, heating/utility room, possibly a storage room behind the kitchen.
Underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof as well as anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows. We want to build a double garage ourselves step by step, only the foundation slab should be poured professionally. No fireplace, no basement. We want to build solidly and cost-effectively but with good quality—so not the cheapest of the cheap, but no extravagant features like golden faucets either.
We plan to do the exterior landscaping, painting and wallpapering work, as well as floor coverings (except tiles) and the garage (except for the foundation) ourselves later on.
We already visited an architect who couldn’t provide exact figures yet, as he first wants to develop the floor plan with us. We also met with a developer (Town & Country). In the first meeting, they already gave us figures. Now we are skeptical whether these numbers are realistic or just nicely calculated. We are also uncertain whether to build with a developer or an architect. We have heard a lot of stories about poor workmanship by developers, and that contracts often have loopholes. So far, we have not heard any negative feedback about Town & Country regionally, so we had a first consultation with this developer. The salesperson was very friendly and patiently explained many things, but of course, they also want to make a sale. We now believe that the numbers may have been presented too favorably. Therefore, we are asking experienced builders for advice on whether this looks realistic so far...
The following was calculated in the first meeting: (We emphasized that we do not want additional financing later and therefore don’t want the calculation to be too tight.)
Construction and ancillary costs:
Our house with Town & Country (Lichthaus) with the mentioned rooms and special requests (house color: light yellow (possibly another color, just an example), underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof, anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows)
€199,170
Connection fees and costs (water, wastewater, electricity, gas, sewer connection): €10,000
Cost for foundation reinforcement, foundation height increase: €5,000
Soil excavation removal: €1,000
Construction water and power connection: €1,000
Materials for wallpapering and floor coverings: €5,000
Materials for the exterior landscaping: €5,000
Garage 6x8 m (20x26 ft) foundation slab: €8,000
Site plan, staking out, permit fees, other fees: €3,500
Interest during construction period: €2,500
Contingency for selections, kitchen: €10,000
Additional notary fees: €1,000
Total costs: €251,170
This would be the loan amount we would need to take out. Own work and the plot are already deducted.
Sounds pretty good overall, but we are skeptical whether the numbers are just presented too nicely or if something is still missing.
For example, where exactly are the surveying costs accounted for? All included in the €3,500? Is that realistic?
I’ve often read online that the cost for construction water and power connection is usually around €2,000. What exactly do they mean by connection here? I thought this referred to the consumption during construction. The plot should already be connected with the calculated €10,000, right?
Also, we wanted to plan €10,000 for the kitchen. That means there is €0 contingency for selections included. I think you usually need to budget at least another €10,000 for fittings. He always said they already have nice standards and if we don’t want golden faucets, this should be sufficient. According to my online research, however, these standards are often very basic and not always very attractive. Of course, we don’t want golden faucets or exaggerated features, but it should be a bit nice, so you’d still want to budget some contingency for selections...
Is something missing in the above initial overview, or is the estimate really too low? I appreciate your experience, feedback, and tips. Also regarding the developer Town & Country.
Best regards
I’m still quite unsure whether it’s better nowadays to build with a developer or with an architect. We are currently gathering house construction offers.
A short introduction about us:
We are currently a household of four. We will purchase the plot from our own funds, including property transfer tax and notary fees (no commission applies). The plot size is about 600 m2 (approximately 6,460 sq ft). The plot is designated as a building site and is fully developed (a building permit / planning permission could be obtained in 3-4 weeks). We only need to arrange the connection to the utility shaft (which is not far away).
Our wishes for the house:
A 1.5-story house (about 120 - 130 m2 (1,290 - 1,400 sq ft)) with a pitched roof, with storage space in the attic.
Upper floor: 3 children’s rooms, bedroom, large bathroom.
Ground floor: open kitchen, dining and living area, guest bathroom, heating/utility room, possibly a storage room behind the kitchen.
Underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof as well as anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows. We want to build a double garage ourselves step by step, only the foundation slab should be poured professionally. No fireplace, no basement. We want to build solidly and cost-effectively but with good quality—so not the cheapest of the cheap, but no extravagant features like golden faucets either.
We plan to do the exterior landscaping, painting and wallpapering work, as well as floor coverings (except tiles) and the garage (except for the foundation) ourselves later on.
We already visited an architect who couldn’t provide exact figures yet, as he first wants to develop the floor plan with us. We also met with a developer (Town & Country). In the first meeting, they already gave us figures. Now we are skeptical whether these numbers are realistic or just nicely calculated. We are also uncertain whether to build with a developer or an architect. We have heard a lot of stories about poor workmanship by developers, and that contracts often have loopholes. So far, we have not heard any negative feedback about Town & Country regionally, so we had a first consultation with this developer. The salesperson was very friendly and patiently explained many things, but of course, they also want to make a sale. We now believe that the numbers may have been presented too favorably. Therefore, we are asking experienced builders for advice on whether this looks realistic so far...
The following was calculated in the first meeting: (We emphasized that we do not want additional financing later and therefore don’t want the calculation to be too tight.)
Construction and ancillary costs:
Our house with Town & Country (Lichthaus) with the mentioned rooms and special requests (house color: light yellow (possibly another color, just an example), underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof, anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows)
€199,170
Connection fees and costs (water, wastewater, electricity, gas, sewer connection): €10,000
Cost for foundation reinforcement, foundation height increase: €5,000
Soil excavation removal: €1,000
Construction water and power connection: €1,000
Materials for wallpapering and floor coverings: €5,000
Materials for the exterior landscaping: €5,000
Garage 6x8 m (20x26 ft) foundation slab: €8,000
Site plan, staking out, permit fees, other fees: €3,500
Interest during construction period: €2,500
Contingency for selections, kitchen: €10,000
Additional notary fees: €1,000
Total costs: €251,170
This would be the loan amount we would need to take out. Own work and the plot are already deducted.
Sounds pretty good overall, but we are skeptical whether the numbers are just presented too nicely or if something is still missing.
For example, where exactly are the surveying costs accounted for? All included in the €3,500? Is that realistic?
I’ve often read online that the cost for construction water and power connection is usually around €2,000. What exactly do they mean by connection here? I thought this referred to the consumption during construction. The plot should already be connected with the calculated €10,000, right?
Also, we wanted to plan €10,000 for the kitchen. That means there is €0 contingency for selections included. I think you usually need to budget at least another €10,000 for fittings. He always said they already have nice standards and if we don’t want golden faucets, this should be sufficient. According to my online research, however, these standards are often very basic and not always very attractive. Of course, we don’t want golden faucets or exaggerated features, but it should be a bit nice, so you’d still want to budget some contingency for selections...
Is something missing in the above initial overview, or is the estimate really too low? I appreciate your experience, feedback, and tips. Also regarding the developer Town & Country.
Best regards
Winniefred6 Aug 2019 14:06Kaho: No, it’s spread over 3 floors. End-terraced house from 1921. An extra 10-20m2 (108-215 sq ft) would have been nice to have, but this works for us. The alternative would have been to keep renting. However, we also have a basement, a garage, and a solid shed. Previously, we had a 98m2 (1,055 sq ft) rental apartment all on one level with 2 storage rooms and a basement.
Will write more later, have to go to work now.
Will write more later, have to go to work now.
Please stick to the topic. It wasn’t about the floor plan. It was about the realism of the figures from T and C. I’m assuming our questioner has read what sums T and C provide for the mentioned items. He has already taken some special requests into account in the to-do list from T and C. So… if we take it seriously that this is supposed to be a middle-of-the-road, no-frills house, where exactly is the real catch in T and C’s numbers? Not a thousand or two thousand, but let’s say 10 to 20 thousand less. Where, please? I don’t see it. And one more thing regarding T and C and cheapness. What was the name of that prestigious solid construction builder again? Vielbock? What is actually different in the substance? Not the flashy stuff! Do they use stickier mortar? Or better bricks? Or more cement in the screed? Or premium PVC for the windows? Or stainless steel gutters? Or mahogany roof trusses? Karsten
M
Matthew036 Aug 2019 14:21Winniefred schrieb:
However, we also have a basement, a garage, and a solid shed. Previously, we had a 98m² (1,056 sq ft) rented apartment all on one level with two storage rooms and a cellar. But that is exactly a fundamentally different starting point...
Nordlys schrieb:
Where exactly is the real catch with the T and Cs numbers? Not 1,000-2,000 but more like 10,000 to 20,000 too little. Where, please? I don’t see it. And another thing about T and C and cheap. What was the name of that prestigious solid construction builder again? Vielbock? What’s actually different about the quality there? I also don’t see any real issue with the quality of the house itself. But a utility room / laundry room of 5m² (54ft²) simply doesn’t work in reality. Especially not for five people. That’s the real problem.
I also have doubts about the ceiling height in the attic space for that house size. For that, exact measurements are needed, but I don’t believe it’s planned for standing height.
Winniefred schrieb:
However, we also have a basement, a garage, and a solid shed. Sorry, but that comparison is just ridiculous.
What is this really about anymore? Another competition over who can build the cheapest or what others can be expected to tolerate, how small or how much they can limit themselves, or is it still about the original question from the OP, whether they need some buffer for their desired standard and, if so, how much?
Similar topics