Hello dear forum members,
I’m still quite unsure whether it’s better nowadays to build with a developer or with an architect. We are currently gathering house construction offers.
A short introduction about us:
We are currently a household of four. We will purchase the plot from our own funds, including property transfer tax and notary fees (no commission applies). The plot size is about 600 m2 (approximately 6,460 sq ft). The plot is designated as a building site and is fully developed (a building permit / planning permission could be obtained in 3-4 weeks). We only need to arrange the connection to the utility shaft (which is not far away).
Our wishes for the house:
A 1.5-story house (about 120 - 130 m2 (1,290 - 1,400 sq ft)) with a pitched roof, with storage space in the attic.
Upper floor: 3 children’s rooms, bedroom, large bathroom.
Ground floor: open kitchen, dining and living area, guest bathroom, heating/utility room, possibly a storage room behind the kitchen.
Underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof as well as anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows. We want to build a double garage ourselves step by step, only the foundation slab should be poured professionally. No fireplace, no basement. We want to build solidly and cost-effectively but with good quality—so not the cheapest of the cheap, but no extravagant features like golden faucets either.
We plan to do the exterior landscaping, painting and wallpapering work, as well as floor coverings (except tiles) and the garage (except for the foundation) ourselves later on.
We already visited an architect who couldn’t provide exact figures yet, as he first wants to develop the floor plan with us. We also met with a developer (Town & Country). In the first meeting, they already gave us figures. Now we are skeptical whether these numbers are realistic or just nicely calculated. We are also uncertain whether to build with a developer or an architect. We have heard a lot of stories about poor workmanship by developers, and that contracts often have loopholes. So far, we have not heard any negative feedback about Town & Country regionally, so we had a first consultation with this developer. The salesperson was very friendly and patiently explained many things, but of course, they also want to make a sale. We now believe that the numbers may have been presented too favorably. Therefore, we are asking experienced builders for advice on whether this looks realistic so far...
The following was calculated in the first meeting: (We emphasized that we do not want additional financing later and therefore don’t want the calculation to be too tight.)
Construction and ancillary costs:
Our house with Town & Country (Lichthaus) with the mentioned rooms and special requests (house color: light yellow (possibly another color, just an example), underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof, anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows)
€199,170
Connection fees and costs (water, wastewater, electricity, gas, sewer connection): €10,000
Cost for foundation reinforcement, foundation height increase: €5,000
Soil excavation removal: €1,000
Construction water and power connection: €1,000
Materials for wallpapering and floor coverings: €5,000
Materials for the exterior landscaping: €5,000
Garage 6x8 m (20x26 ft) foundation slab: €8,000
Site plan, staking out, permit fees, other fees: €3,500
Interest during construction period: €2,500
Contingency for selections, kitchen: €10,000
Additional notary fees: €1,000
Total costs: €251,170
This would be the loan amount we would need to take out. Own work and the plot are already deducted.
Sounds pretty good overall, but we are skeptical whether the numbers are just presented too nicely or if something is still missing.
For example, where exactly are the surveying costs accounted for? All included in the €3,500? Is that realistic?
I’ve often read online that the cost for construction water and power connection is usually around €2,000. What exactly do they mean by connection here? I thought this referred to the consumption during construction. The plot should already be connected with the calculated €10,000, right?
Also, we wanted to plan €10,000 for the kitchen. That means there is €0 contingency for selections included. I think you usually need to budget at least another €10,000 for fittings. He always said they already have nice standards and if we don’t want golden faucets, this should be sufficient. According to my online research, however, these standards are often very basic and not always very attractive. Of course, we don’t want golden faucets or exaggerated features, but it should be a bit nice, so you’d still want to budget some contingency for selections...
Is something missing in the above initial overview, or is the estimate really too low? I appreciate your experience, feedback, and tips. Also regarding the developer Town & Country.
Best regards
I’m still quite unsure whether it’s better nowadays to build with a developer or with an architect. We are currently gathering house construction offers.
A short introduction about us:
We are currently a household of four. We will purchase the plot from our own funds, including property transfer tax and notary fees (no commission applies). The plot size is about 600 m2 (approximately 6,460 sq ft). The plot is designated as a building site and is fully developed (a building permit / planning permission could be obtained in 3-4 weeks). We only need to arrange the connection to the utility shaft (which is not far away).
Our wishes for the house:
A 1.5-story house (about 120 - 130 m2 (1,290 - 1,400 sq ft)) with a pitched roof, with storage space in the attic.
Upper floor: 3 children’s rooms, bedroom, large bathroom.
Ground floor: open kitchen, dining and living area, guest bathroom, heating/utility room, possibly a storage room behind the kitchen.
Underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof as well as anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows. We want to build a double garage ourselves step by step, only the foundation slab should be poured professionally. No fireplace, no basement. We want to build solidly and cost-effectively but with good quality—so not the cheapest of the cheap, but no extravagant features like golden faucets either.
We plan to do the exterior landscaping, painting and wallpapering work, as well as floor coverings (except tiles) and the garage (except for the foundation) ourselves later on.
We already visited an architect who couldn’t provide exact figures yet, as he first wants to develop the floor plan with us. We also met with a developer (Town & Country). In the first meeting, they already gave us figures. Now we are skeptical whether these numbers are realistic or just nicely calculated. We are also uncertain whether to build with a developer or an architect. We have heard a lot of stories about poor workmanship by developers, and that contracts often have loopholes. So far, we have not heard any negative feedback about Town & Country regionally, so we had a first consultation with this developer. The salesperson was very friendly and patiently explained many things, but of course, they also want to make a sale. We now believe that the numbers may have been presented too favorably. Therefore, we are asking experienced builders for advice on whether this looks realistic so far...
The following was calculated in the first meeting: (We emphasized that we do not want additional financing later and therefore don’t want the calculation to be too tight.)
Construction and ancillary costs:
Our house with Town & Country (Lichthaus) with the mentioned rooms and special requests (house color: light yellow (possibly another color, just an example), underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof, anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows)
€199,170
Connection fees and costs (water, wastewater, electricity, gas, sewer connection): €10,000
Cost for foundation reinforcement, foundation height increase: €5,000
Soil excavation removal: €1,000
Construction water and power connection: €1,000
Materials for wallpapering and floor coverings: €5,000
Materials for the exterior landscaping: €5,000
Garage 6x8 m (20x26 ft) foundation slab: €8,000
Site plan, staking out, permit fees, other fees: €3,500
Interest during construction period: €2,500
Contingency for selections, kitchen: €10,000
Additional notary fees: €1,000
Total costs: €251,170
This would be the loan amount we would need to take out. Own work and the plot are already deducted.
Sounds pretty good overall, but we are skeptical whether the numbers are just presented too nicely or if something is still missing.
For example, where exactly are the surveying costs accounted for? All included in the €3,500? Is that realistic?
I’ve often read online that the cost for construction water and power connection is usually around €2,000. What exactly do they mean by connection here? I thought this referred to the consumption during construction. The plot should already be connected with the calculated €10,000, right?
Also, we wanted to plan €10,000 for the kitchen. That means there is €0 contingency for selections included. I think you usually need to budget at least another €10,000 for fittings. He always said they already have nice standards and if we don’t want golden faucets, this should be sufficient. According to my online research, however, these standards are often very basic and not always very attractive. Of course, we don’t want golden faucets or exaggerated features, but it should be a bit nice, so you’d still want to budget some contingency for selections...
Is something missing in the above initial overview, or is the estimate really too low? I appreciate your experience, feedback, and tips. Also regarding the developer Town & Country.
Best regards
It’s quite the space-saving design to fit all that into 120 sqm (1292 sq ft).
I can’t find any dimensions, so I find some aspects questionable.
Is the third children’s bedroom meant to become the workspace next to the master bedroom?
Take a closer look at the sizes of the dining area and the three children’s bedrooms. How are they supposed to be furnished? Especially with sloped ceilings?
There is also no storage space for a household of five.
The 5 sqm (54 sq ft) utility room is barely enough for the technical equipment. There is no space left for storage.
Where are things supposed to be stored? Where would a small drying rack fit?
Building not too large is a very good principle. But living in this house with three children will be a real challenge.
For three children’s bedrooms, I would rather request a price quote for the Lichthaus 152.
I can’t find any dimensions, so I find some aspects questionable.
Is the third children’s bedroom meant to become the workspace next to the master bedroom?
Take a closer look at the sizes of the dining area and the three children’s bedrooms. How are they supposed to be furnished? Especially with sloped ceilings?
There is also no storage space for a household of five.
The 5 sqm (54 sq ft) utility room is barely enough for the technical equipment. There is no space left for storage.
Where are things supposed to be stored? Where would a small drying rack fit?
Building not too large is a very good principle. But living in this house with three children will be a real challenge.
For three children’s bedrooms, I would rather request a price quote for the Lichthaus 152.
We are currently building a house with 127 sqm (1,366 sq ft)... on the upper floor there is a standard small bathroom, a children's room, and a bedroom... if you slightly reduce the size of the bedroom, you could fit a second children's room, but that’s about it... I would suggest visiting model homes to get a better sense of the space... especially since a small bathroom has to be used by five people, or at least two people need to use it at the same time...
Newcomer123 schrieb:
We’re not fixating on the square meters, but we don’t need a house with 170–180 m² (about 1,830–1,940 sq ft). And when the kids move out, what do you do with so many rooms and so much space? You have to think about the future, after all. We only build once for a lifetime. Besides, all that space needs to be cleaned and maintained.No one said you have to build 170–180 m² (about 1,830–1,940 sq ft). But 120 m² (about 1,290 sq ft) is too small. There are also sizes in between.
Crossy schrieb:
It’s quite a space saver what they manage to fit into 120 m² (1,292 ft²).
I couldn’t find any dimensions, so I consider some parts questionable. Well, for our local supplier, the upper floor measurements for the Lichthaus 121 are listed—not on the drawing, but in a table next to it:
| Bedroom |
| 20.57 m² (221.3 ft²) |
| Child’s room |
| 11.42 m² (122.9 ft²) |
| Guest room |
| 11.46 m² (123.3 ft²) |
| Bathroom |
| 8.28 m² (89.1 ft²) |
| Hallway |
| 4.46 m² (48.0 ft²) |
ypg schrieb:
No one said you should build 170-180. But 120 is a bit too tight.
There are also intermediate sizes That's true, something like the Town & Country Flair 134: for 3000 more, you get the desired room layout. HAR then has 8 m2 (86 sq ft). At least that. Would a walk-in attic be possible there?
AxelH. schrieb:
So, for our local supplier, the dimensions of the upper floor in the Lichthaus 121 are listed—not in the drawing itself, but in a table next to it:
Bedroom
20.57 m² (221.3 ft²)
Child's room
11.42 m² (123 ft²)
Guest room
11.46 m² (123.4 ft²)
Bathroom
8.28 m² (89.1 ft²)
Hallway
4.46 m² (48 ft²)
Sure, but what use are the square meter measurements if I don’t know the length of the wall at the head of the master bed? That’s what I meant by dimensioning.