Hello dear forum members,
I’m still quite unsure whether it’s better nowadays to build with a developer or with an architect. We are currently gathering house construction offers.
A short introduction about us:
We are currently a household of four. We will purchase the plot from our own funds, including property transfer tax and notary fees (no commission applies). The plot size is about 600 m2 (approximately 6,460 sq ft). The plot is designated as a building site and is fully developed (a building permit / planning permission could be obtained in 3-4 weeks). We only need to arrange the connection to the utility shaft (which is not far away).
Our wishes for the house:
A 1.5-story house (about 120 - 130 m2 (1,290 - 1,400 sq ft)) with a pitched roof, with storage space in the attic.
Upper floor: 3 children’s rooms, bedroom, large bathroom.
Ground floor: open kitchen, dining and living area, guest bathroom, heating/utility room, possibly a storage room behind the kitchen.
Underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof as well as anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows. We want to build a double garage ourselves step by step, only the foundation slab should be poured professionally. No fireplace, no basement. We want to build solidly and cost-effectively but with good quality—so not the cheapest of the cheap, but no extravagant features like golden faucets either.
We plan to do the exterior landscaping, painting and wallpapering work, as well as floor coverings (except tiles) and the garage (except for the foundation) ourselves later on.
We already visited an architect who couldn’t provide exact figures yet, as he first wants to develop the floor plan with us. We also met with a developer (Town & Country). In the first meeting, they already gave us figures. Now we are skeptical whether these numbers are realistic or just nicely calculated. We are also uncertain whether to build with a developer or an architect. We have heard a lot of stories about poor workmanship by developers, and that contracts often have loopholes. So far, we have not heard any negative feedback about Town & Country regionally, so we had a first consultation with this developer. The salesperson was very friendly and patiently explained many things, but of course, they also want to make a sale. We now believe that the numbers may have been presented too favorably. Therefore, we are asking experienced builders for advice on whether this looks realistic so far...
The following was calculated in the first meeting: (We emphasized that we do not want additional financing later and therefore don’t want the calculation to be too tight.)
Construction and ancillary costs:
Our house with Town & Country (Lichthaus) with the mentioned rooms and special requests (house color: light yellow (possibly another color, just an example), underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof, anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows)
€199,170
Connection fees and costs (water, wastewater, electricity, gas, sewer connection): €10,000
Cost for foundation reinforcement, foundation height increase: €5,000
Soil excavation removal: €1,000
Construction water and power connection: €1,000
Materials for wallpapering and floor coverings: €5,000
Materials for the exterior landscaping: €5,000
Garage 6x8 m (20x26 ft) foundation slab: €8,000
Site plan, staking out, permit fees, other fees: €3,500
Interest during construction period: €2,500
Contingency for selections, kitchen: €10,000
Additional notary fees: €1,000
Total costs: €251,170
This would be the loan amount we would need to take out. Own work and the plot are already deducted.
Sounds pretty good overall, but we are skeptical whether the numbers are just presented too nicely or if something is still missing.
For example, where exactly are the surveying costs accounted for? All included in the €3,500? Is that realistic?
I’ve often read online that the cost for construction water and power connection is usually around €2,000. What exactly do they mean by connection here? I thought this referred to the consumption during construction. The plot should already be connected with the calculated €10,000, right?
Also, we wanted to plan €10,000 for the kitchen. That means there is €0 contingency for selections included. I think you usually need to budget at least another €10,000 for fittings. He always said they already have nice standards and if we don’t want golden faucets, this should be sufficient. According to my online research, however, these standards are often very basic and not always very attractive. Of course, we don’t want golden faucets or exaggerated features, but it should be a bit nice, so you’d still want to budget some contingency for selections...
Is something missing in the above initial overview, or is the estimate really too low? I appreciate your experience, feedback, and tips. Also regarding the developer Town & Country.
Best regards
I’m still quite unsure whether it’s better nowadays to build with a developer or with an architect. We are currently gathering house construction offers.
A short introduction about us:
We are currently a household of four. We will purchase the plot from our own funds, including property transfer tax and notary fees (no commission applies). The plot size is about 600 m2 (approximately 6,460 sq ft). The plot is designated as a building site and is fully developed (a building permit / planning permission could be obtained in 3-4 weeks). We only need to arrange the connection to the utility shaft (which is not far away).
Our wishes for the house:
A 1.5-story house (about 120 - 130 m2 (1,290 - 1,400 sq ft)) with a pitched roof, with storage space in the attic.
Upper floor: 3 children’s rooms, bedroom, large bathroom.
Ground floor: open kitchen, dining and living area, guest bathroom, heating/utility room, possibly a storage room behind the kitchen.
Underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof as well as anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows. We want to build a double garage ourselves step by step, only the foundation slab should be poured professionally. No fireplace, no basement. We want to build solidly and cost-effectively but with good quality—so not the cheapest of the cheap, but no extravagant features like golden faucets either.
We plan to do the exterior landscaping, painting and wallpapering work, as well as floor coverings (except tiles) and the garage (except for the foundation) ourselves later on.
We already visited an architect who couldn’t provide exact figures yet, as he first wants to develop the floor plan with us. We also met with a developer (Town & Country). In the first meeting, they already gave us figures. Now we are skeptical whether these numbers are realistic or just nicely calculated. We are also uncertain whether to build with a developer or an architect. We have heard a lot of stories about poor workmanship by developers, and that contracts often have loopholes. So far, we have not heard any negative feedback about Town & Country regionally, so we had a first consultation with this developer. The salesperson was very friendly and patiently explained many things, but of course, they also want to make a sale. We now believe that the numbers may have been presented too favorably. Therefore, we are asking experienced builders for advice on whether this looks realistic so far...
The following was calculated in the first meeting: (We emphasized that we do not want additional financing later and therefore don’t want the calculation to be too tight.)
Construction and ancillary costs:
Our house with Town & Country (Lichthaus) with the mentioned rooms and special requests (house color: light yellow (possibly another color, just an example), underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof, anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows)
€199,170
Connection fees and costs (water, wastewater, electricity, gas, sewer connection): €10,000
Cost for foundation reinforcement, foundation height increase: €5,000
Soil excavation removal: €1,000
Construction water and power connection: €1,000
Materials for wallpapering and floor coverings: €5,000
Materials for the exterior landscaping: €5,000
Garage 6x8 m (20x26 ft) foundation slab: €8,000
Site plan, staking out, permit fees, other fees: €3,500
Interest during construction period: €2,500
Contingency for selections, kitchen: €10,000
Additional notary fees: €1,000
Total costs: €251,170
This would be the loan amount we would need to take out. Own work and the plot are already deducted.
Sounds pretty good overall, but we are skeptical whether the numbers are just presented too nicely or if something is still missing.
For example, where exactly are the surveying costs accounted for? All included in the €3,500? Is that realistic?
I’ve often read online that the cost for construction water and power connection is usually around €2,000. What exactly do they mean by connection here? I thought this referred to the consumption during construction. The plot should already be connected with the calculated €10,000, right?
Also, we wanted to plan €10,000 for the kitchen. That means there is €0 contingency for selections included. I think you usually need to budget at least another €10,000 for fittings. He always said they already have nice standards and if we don’t want golden faucets, this should be sufficient. According to my online research, however, these standards are often very basic and not always very attractive. Of course, we don’t want golden faucets or exaggerated features, but it should be a bit nice, so you’d still want to budget some contingency for selections...
Is something missing in the above initial overview, or is the estimate really too low? I appreciate your experience, feedback, and tips. Also regarding the developer Town & Country.
Best regards
ypg schrieb:
What is this actually about anymore?For me, the question is: how much does a functional house with minimum standards for 5 people from Town & Country cost?
Winniefred6 Aug 2019 15:28I'm out of here. I also don't feel like spending my free time dealing with what others find ridiculous about what I write, especially when they obviously haven't read my posts properly.
Dear OP, all the best with your project!
Dear OP, all the best with your project!
N
Newcomer1236 Aug 2019 15:36Dear all, thank you very much for your opinions, advice, and information. I am very grateful for every single tip, as this is the only way to reach the goal and gain experience. I also understand that the space is too small for five people! As already mentioned, we will visit the model home on site and also request additional quotes for more square meters. Town & Country recommended at least 6 m² (65 sq ft) for the utility room without us even bringing it up, and we intend to follow this recommendation. This was the first quote; my main focus was simply on the estimated numbers and quality. We already knew that at least another €10,000 would need to be spent during the interior selection phase. The garage, which we will have built later, will be financed with personal funds. Regarding the material costs for painting and flooring, as well as for outdoor materials, I honestly have no sense of what to budget. We want to have a terrace and possibly a driveway with gravel or something similar in the outdoor area, but we are not yet sure. Most of the rest will be lawn. Everything else, like fencing, planting, etc., will be done over time as we save more money (and yes, we will still manage to save despite the mortgage payments and extra repayments). Obviously, €5,000 is also too low here, so Town & Country is actually overestimating.
N
Newcomer1236 Aug 2019 15:38Winniefred schrieb:
I'm done here. I also don't want to spend my free time dealing with what others find ridiculous about what I write, especially since they obviously haven't properly read my posts.
Dear OP, all the best with your project! Thank you, and all the best to you as well
HilfeHilfe schrieb:
Town & Country is, of course, also positioned in the lower price segment, That fits for the lower expectation segment.
Newcomer123 schrieb:
Just because you want to build practical and reasonable doesn’t mean it has to be a cookie-cutter house. I meant that neutrally. You don’t have to stubbornly want the only lime-green barrel roof house on your street just to be “individual.” And it’s okay if the “Golf” also exists as a house.
Crossy schrieb:
For three children’s bedrooms, I would rather get price information for the Lichthaus 152. Yes, I would at least plan the price difference to the “one size bigger catalog house” as a special wish budget for customization—if not just build a custom design with them from the start. The fact that the standard family in Germany is one to two children means two possibilities for families with three kids: either the catalog house designs fit only if they are planned for three-child families, or if they have an extra bonus room (the latter is almost impossible in the 120-sqm (1290-sqft) range). Where a walk-in closet is planned—although shown here as an office, probably so the large window doesn’t look out of place—you cannot just repurpose it. And squeezing in another room by interpreting a partition wall as a “guest crack” and stealing one and a half meters each side from the adjacent rooms unfortunately makes the floor plan stop working properly. Because whether “Flair” or “Lichthaus”: in the 120-sqm (1290-sqft) segment there is no surplus space anywhere that you can just take away. And where a walk-in closet is planned, the bedroom is not designed to also accommodate a large wardrobe as a classic full bedroom. Climbing into the attic daily for everyday clothes is hardly desirable. So, however you look at it, adding one more child in my opinion automatically means moving to a larger house model.
Newcomer123 schrieb:
Yes, we will also get a quote for more square meters. Usually, upgrading to the next larger base model is more economical than enlarging a model—especially because the cheaper variant of enlarging (linear extension in the ridge direction) often works only moderately efficiently with a clever floor plan layout.
kaho674 schrieb:
HAR, where the technical room space has already been deducted (which alone needs at least 5 sqm (54 sq ft)!) Boiler with maintenance zone, manifold plus electrician’s access zone, a drying rack—then with 5 sqm (54 sq ft) you can just barely open the door.
Nordlys schrieb:
Do they have stickier mortar? Better bricks? More cement in the screed? Or fancy PVC for the windows? Or stainless steel gutters? Or mahogany roof trusses? I don’t think gluten-free organic mortar either—I believe the only thing more expensive is the price itself.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
When you have a small house with a basement, it’s a completely different situation compared to having only a utility room. In the basement, you might store food supplies, a large amount of drinks, tools, cleaning products, a washing machine and dryer, children’s toys, and so on. That’s why you need to plan for extra space if you’re building without a basement. It’s certainly possible to live in a very small space with many children, but the question is whether you want to limit yourself that way. It’s also no fun constantly having to think about where to store your cleaning supplies, laundry baskets, and tools because the space is just too tight.
Best regards,
Sabine
Best regards,
Sabine
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