Hello dear forum members,
I’m still quite unsure whether it’s better nowadays to build with a developer or with an architect. We are currently gathering house construction offers.
A short introduction about us:
We are currently a household of four. We will purchase the plot from our own funds, including property transfer tax and notary fees (no commission applies). The plot size is about 600 m2 (approximately 6,460 sq ft). The plot is designated as a building site and is fully developed (a building permit / planning permission could be obtained in 3-4 weeks). We only need to arrange the connection to the utility shaft (which is not far away).
Our wishes for the house:
A 1.5-story house (about 120 - 130 m2 (1,290 - 1,400 sq ft)) with a pitched roof, with storage space in the attic.
Upper floor: 3 children’s rooms, bedroom, large bathroom.
Ground floor: open kitchen, dining and living area, guest bathroom, heating/utility room, possibly a storage room behind the kitchen.
Underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof as well as anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows. We want to build a double garage ourselves step by step, only the foundation slab should be poured professionally. No fireplace, no basement. We want to build solidly and cost-effectively but with good quality—so not the cheapest of the cheap, but no extravagant features like golden faucets either.
We plan to do the exterior landscaping, painting and wallpapering work, as well as floor coverings (except tiles) and the garage (except for the foundation) ourselves later on.
We already visited an architect who couldn’t provide exact figures yet, as he first wants to develop the floor plan with us. We also met with a developer (Town & Country). In the first meeting, they already gave us figures. Now we are skeptical whether these numbers are realistic or just nicely calculated. We are also uncertain whether to build with a developer or an architect. We have heard a lot of stories about poor workmanship by developers, and that contracts often have loopholes. So far, we have not heard any negative feedback about Town & Country regionally, so we had a first consultation with this developer. The salesperson was very friendly and patiently explained many things, but of course, they also want to make a sale. We now believe that the numbers may have been presented too favorably. Therefore, we are asking experienced builders for advice on whether this looks realistic so far...
The following was calculated in the first meeting: (We emphasized that we do not want additional financing later and therefore don’t want the calculation to be too tight.)
Construction and ancillary costs:
Our house with Town & Country (Lichthaus) with the mentioned rooms and special requests (house color: light yellow (possibly another color, just an example), underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof, anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows)
€199,170
Connection fees and costs (water, wastewater, electricity, gas, sewer connection): €10,000
Cost for foundation reinforcement, foundation height increase: €5,000
Soil excavation removal: €1,000
Construction water and power connection: €1,000
Materials for wallpapering and floor coverings: €5,000
Materials for the exterior landscaping: €5,000
Garage 6x8 m (20x26 ft) foundation slab: €8,000
Site plan, staking out, permit fees, other fees: €3,500
Interest during construction period: €2,500
Contingency for selections, kitchen: €10,000
Additional notary fees: €1,000
Total costs: €251,170
This would be the loan amount we would need to take out. Own work and the plot are already deducted.
Sounds pretty good overall, but we are skeptical whether the numbers are just presented too nicely or if something is still missing.
For example, where exactly are the surveying costs accounted for? All included in the €3,500? Is that realistic?
I’ve often read online that the cost for construction water and power connection is usually around €2,000. What exactly do they mean by connection here? I thought this referred to the consumption during construction. The plot should already be connected with the calculated €10,000, right?
Also, we wanted to plan €10,000 for the kitchen. That means there is €0 contingency for selections included. I think you usually need to budget at least another €10,000 for fittings. He always said they already have nice standards and if we don’t want golden faucets, this should be sufficient. According to my online research, however, these standards are often very basic and not always very attractive. Of course, we don’t want golden faucets or exaggerated features, but it should be a bit nice, so you’d still want to budget some contingency for selections...
Is something missing in the above initial overview, or is the estimate really too low? I appreciate your experience, feedback, and tips. Also regarding the developer Town & Country.
Best regards
I’m still quite unsure whether it’s better nowadays to build with a developer or with an architect. We are currently gathering house construction offers.
A short introduction about us:
We are currently a household of four. We will purchase the plot from our own funds, including property transfer tax and notary fees (no commission applies). The plot size is about 600 m2 (approximately 6,460 sq ft). The plot is designated as a building site and is fully developed (a building permit / planning permission could be obtained in 3-4 weeks). We only need to arrange the connection to the utility shaft (which is not far away).
Our wishes for the house:
A 1.5-story house (about 120 - 130 m2 (1,290 - 1,400 sq ft)) with a pitched roof, with storage space in the attic.
Upper floor: 3 children’s rooms, bedroom, large bathroom.
Ground floor: open kitchen, dining and living area, guest bathroom, heating/utility room, possibly a storage room behind the kitchen.
Underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof as well as anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows. We want to build a double garage ourselves step by step, only the foundation slab should be poured professionally. No fireplace, no basement. We want to build solidly and cost-effectively but with good quality—so not the cheapest of the cheap, but no extravagant features like golden faucets either.
We plan to do the exterior landscaping, painting and wallpapering work, as well as floor coverings (except tiles) and the garage (except for the foundation) ourselves later on.
We already visited an architect who couldn’t provide exact figures yet, as he first wants to develop the floor plan with us. We also met with a developer (Town & Country). In the first meeting, they already gave us figures. Now we are skeptical whether these numbers are realistic or just nicely calculated. We are also uncertain whether to build with a developer or an architect. We have heard a lot of stories about poor workmanship by developers, and that contracts often have loopholes. So far, we have not heard any negative feedback about Town & Country regionally, so we had a first consultation with this developer. The salesperson was very friendly and patiently explained many things, but of course, they also want to make a sale. We now believe that the numbers may have been presented too favorably. Therefore, we are asking experienced builders for advice on whether this looks realistic so far...
The following was calculated in the first meeting: (We emphasized that we do not want additional financing later and therefore don’t want the calculation to be too tight.)
Construction and ancillary costs:
Our house with Town & Country (Lichthaus) with the mentioned rooms and special requests (house color: light yellow (possibly another color, just an example), underfloor heating throughout, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof, anthracite-colored windows, shutters on the windows)
€199,170
Connection fees and costs (water, wastewater, electricity, gas, sewer connection): €10,000
Cost for foundation reinforcement, foundation height increase: €5,000
Soil excavation removal: €1,000
Construction water and power connection: €1,000
Materials for wallpapering and floor coverings: €5,000
Materials for the exterior landscaping: €5,000
Garage 6x8 m (20x26 ft) foundation slab: €8,000
Site plan, staking out, permit fees, other fees: €3,500
Interest during construction period: €2,500
Contingency for selections, kitchen: €10,000
Additional notary fees: €1,000
Total costs: €251,170
This would be the loan amount we would need to take out. Own work and the plot are already deducted.
Sounds pretty good overall, but we are skeptical whether the numbers are just presented too nicely or if something is still missing.
For example, where exactly are the surveying costs accounted for? All included in the €3,500? Is that realistic?
I’ve often read online that the cost for construction water and power connection is usually around €2,000. What exactly do they mean by connection here? I thought this referred to the consumption during construction. The plot should already be connected with the calculated €10,000, right?
Also, we wanted to plan €10,000 for the kitchen. That means there is €0 contingency for selections included. I think you usually need to budget at least another €10,000 for fittings. He always said they already have nice standards and if we don’t want golden faucets, this should be sufficient. According to my online research, however, these standards are often very basic and not always very attractive. Of course, we don’t want golden faucets or exaggerated features, but it should be a bit nice, so you’d still want to budget some contingency for selections...
Is something missing in the above initial overview, or is the estimate really too low? I appreciate your experience, feedback, and tips. Also regarding the developer Town & Country.
Best regards
Winniefred6 Aug 2019 13:04Sometimes I wonder how we, as four people, don’t have any space issues in 100m2 (1,076 sq ft), while here 120m2 (1,292 sq ft) seems almost impossible for five people^^.
For a new build without a basement and with three children (is a third definitely planned, or just a possibility?), I would also build a bit bigger, but 140m2 (1,507 sq ft) is more than enough. You don’t keep everything within the living area of the house; some things are stored in the attic, garden shed, or garage. And no one has ever died from having the washing machine in the kitchen.
Also, the construction has to be paid for, and with two to three children, every dollar counts. On top of that, the house needs to be maintained, heated, and cleaned.
I think your expectations are rather modest, and in that case, a standard house model is definitely sufficient.
For a new build without a basement and with three children (is a third definitely planned, or just a possibility?), I would also build a bit bigger, but 140m2 (1,507 sq ft) is more than enough. You don’t keep everything within the living area of the house; some things are stored in the attic, garden shed, or garage. And no one has ever died from having the washing machine in the kitchen.
Also, the construction has to be paid for, and with two to three children, every dollar counts. On top of that, the house needs to be maintained, heated, and cleaned.
I think your expectations are rather modest, and in that case, a standard house model is definitely sufficient.
N
Newcomer1236 Aug 2019 13:10Yosan schrieb:
Regarding point 5, the Lichthaus 121 will be very/too small, I have to agree with the others. Town & Country also offers several houses in the range of 140-150 sqm (1,507-1,615 sq ft). Maybe take a look at those instead. Yes, we will also have an offer made for a larger floor area. We already have an appointment to visit the Lichthaus 121 to get a sense of the size. I just wanted to first find out if the estimated costs for this size are realistic, or if this is just a bait. Whether Town & Country is trustworthy.
N
Newcomer1236 Aug 2019 13:19Winniefred schrieb:
Sometimes I wonder how four of us don’t have any space issues in 100m2 (about 1,076 sq ft), while 120m2 (about 1,292 sq ft) for five people seems almost impossible here^^.
For a new build without a basement and three children (is a third definitely planned or just maybe?), I would also build a bit larger, but 140m2 (about 1,507 sq ft) is definitely enough. Not everything in the house has to be within the living area; some things can be stored in the attic, a shed, or even the garage. And no one has ever died from having the washing machine in the kitchen.
Building costs must be paid, and with two or three children, every dollar is needed. Plus, you have to maintain, heat, and clean the space afterwards.
I think your expectations are quite simple, so a standard house is more than sufficient. Thank you very much. We currently live as four people in an 82m2 (about 883 sq ft) apartment and don’t have any space problems either. The washing machine is not in the kitchen, and both my children have beautiful bedrooms. We also have a second property with plenty of storage space for items that are not used often.
kaho674 schrieb:
I have to quote Yvonne’s nice list again [we should pin that somewhere]I’m working on it. If you have any more ideas, please send me a private message.
Winniefred schrieb:
I think your expectations are quite basic, so a standard house will definitely do. Here again are the basic expectations of the original poster.
Yes, almost everyone here builds in a down-to-earth way, but down-to-earth and quality does not simply mean cheap.
Although a standard house may be sufficient, the fittings and features cannot be ignored, as shown here, for example, safety. And this doesn’t even yet include the heating system or other extras that some might prefer over colored windows. So if you really look into the topic, there’s quite a bit more. Except for @Nordlys, our thrifty fox, no one here has mentioned electrical or plumbing systems.
Newcomer123 schrieb:
Our house wishes:
A 1.5-story house (about 120 - 130 m2 [1290 - 1400 sq ft]) with a pitched roof, with attic storage space.
Upper floor: 3 children’s rooms, bedroom, large bathroom.
Ground floor: open kitchen, dining and living room, guest bathroom, heating or utility room, possibly a storage room behind the kitchen.
Underfloor heating everywhere, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof and windows, shutters on the windows, and a double garage that we want to add gradually. Newcomer123 schrieb:
We want to build in a down-to-earth, affordable but still qualitative way—not just the cheapest of the cheapest, but nothing extravagant like gold faucets, etc. Newcomer123 schrieb:
+ Special requests (house color: light yellow (maybe another color, this was just an example), underfloor heating everywhere, corner bathtub, anthracite-colored roof and windows, shutters on the windows) Newcomer123 schrieb:
From what I found online, it often seems to be quite a simple basic standard that doesn’t always look very nice. Newcomer123 schrieb:
Of course, we don’t want gold faucets or anything over the top, but we do want it to look a bit nice, so I guess we have to include some budget for customization… 
Winniefred schrieb:
Sometimes I wonder how the four of us don’t have any space issues in 100m² (1,076 sq ft), when it seems nearly impossible to fit five people in 120m² (1,292 sq ft). ^^ 100m² (1,076 sq ft) all on one level, I assume?
Newcomer123 schrieb:
Thank you very much. We now live as a family of four in an 82m² (882 sq ft) apartment and don’t have any space problems. The washing machine isn’t in the kitchen, and both of my children have beautiful bedrooms. Yes, many tend to compare apples and oranges. Where is the stairwell and utility room in your apartment? What about the basement? And so far, the calculation hasn’t mentioned
Winniefred schrieb:
a shed or ... garage. let alone
Newcomer123 schrieb:
a second property with plenty of storage space for items you don’t use often. So far, I actually see less of a financing problem and more of a lack of understanding of the spatial and storage needs for five people. That’s why it’s essential to visit show homes.