ᐅ Location of the mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery in the underground basement?
Created on: 7 Feb 2012 08:42
W
wadi1982Hello everyone,
We are getting a controlled mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery.
For reference: The house has a footprint of about 130m² (1400 sq ft) and a living area of approximately 115m² (1238 sq ft).
We have just received the first plan from the architect.
Originally, the ventilation system was planned to be installed in the basement.
However, we now have the (fortunate?!?!?) situation that our plot is almost level.
This means the basement will be completely underground.
Because of this, the architect has revised the plan so that the ventilation unit will be located in the utility room.
Reason: The system needs a way to draw in and exhaust air. If we still wanted the ventilation unit in the basement, we’d either have to dig out a corner (which we want to avoid) or install so-called ventilation towers (= extra cost, and from what I found, they don’t look nice).
Now I have the following questions, hoping someone here can help me:
1. Could you simply run the two ducts (supply and exhaust air) in the basement to the outside and install a light well (window well) at that spot (of course without a basement window)? Then the supply and exhaust could be placed inside the light well, which I think wouldn’t look too bad. Or do the supply and exhaust ducts have to maintain a certain distance from each other?
2. If point 1 isn’t possible, could the ventilation unit be installed in the basement directly below the utility room? The supply and exhaust ducts would then run through the floor of the utility room into the basement and be vented to the outside in the utility room (hope that makes sense). That way, the openings would be placed higher.
3. If neither of these options work, how loud is such a system usually for a house this size? Would it be disturbing in everyday life?
Thanks in advance for your opinions!
We are getting a controlled mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery.
For reference: The house has a footprint of about 130m² (1400 sq ft) and a living area of approximately 115m² (1238 sq ft).
We have just received the first plan from the architect.
Originally, the ventilation system was planned to be installed in the basement.
However, we now have the (fortunate?!?!?) situation that our plot is almost level.
This means the basement will be completely underground.
Because of this, the architect has revised the plan so that the ventilation unit will be located in the utility room.
Reason: The system needs a way to draw in and exhaust air. If we still wanted the ventilation unit in the basement, we’d either have to dig out a corner (which we want to avoid) or install so-called ventilation towers (= extra cost, and from what I found, they don’t look nice).
Now I have the following questions, hoping someone here can help me:
1. Could you simply run the two ducts (supply and exhaust air) in the basement to the outside and install a light well (window well) at that spot (of course without a basement window)? Then the supply and exhaust could be placed inside the light well, which I think wouldn’t look too bad. Or do the supply and exhaust ducts have to maintain a certain distance from each other?
2. If point 1 isn’t possible, could the ventilation unit be installed in the basement directly below the utility room? The supply and exhaust ducts would then run through the floor of the utility room into the basement and be vented to the outside in the utility room (hope that makes sense). That way, the openings would be placed higher.
3. If neither of these options work, how loud is such a system usually for a house this size? Would it be disturbing in everyday life?
Thanks in advance for your opinions!
B
Bauexperte7 Feb 2012 10:03Hello,
Yes, about 3.00 m (10 feet); additionally, the exhaust pipe should not face the neighbor's side.
Why don’t you take the obvious approach and raise the basement about 50 cm (20 inches) above ground level? If the eaves and ridge heights don’t allow this, you should follow your architect’s advice.
Whether the system is “loud” during operation really depends on the manufacturer used. Just last year, one of our clients was convinced by a well-meaning relative—the most complicated kind of endorsement during a construction project—to install an Austrian product instead of the air-to-water heat pump we had recommended. The relative focused on the external noise, overlooking that there is a German DIN standard limiting noise emissions; according to this standard, noise must be restricted either way.
Now there is an outdoor unit right in front of the kitchen window, measuring about 1.00 x 1.00 m (3.3 x 3.3 feet) (a real “eye catcher” :rolleyes - with “virtually” no noise, but the indoor noise level has noticeably increased—due to the necessary buffer tank of the system making the heating distribution system so “awkward” that I wonder how maintenance intervals can be carried out without the technician twisting their fingers. In summary, with considerable effort and an additional cost of about €5,000, our client now has significantly higher indoor noise... but since the relative is convinced, so is the client; what more can you want?
For separate systems, we install products from a Japanese manufacturer, and for compact units, we use market-leading systems. Personally, I consider the noise levels of both negligible; I would even say that the constant ignition of a gas condensing boiler is louder. But this perception is subjective, and as someone who understands the necessities involved in building a single-family home better than almost any homeowner, it makes sense to me that there is no “jack-of-all-trades” solution.
Kind regards
wadi1982 schrieb:
Or do the supply and exhaust air vents need to be a certain distance apart?
Yes, about 3.00 m (10 feet); additionally, the exhaust pipe should not face the neighbor's side.
wadi1982 schrieb:
3. If neither of these options works. How loud is this type of system normally for a house this size? Would it be disruptive in daily life?
Why don’t you take the obvious approach and raise the basement about 50 cm (20 inches) above ground level? If the eaves and ridge heights don’t allow this, you should follow your architect’s advice.
Whether the system is “loud” during operation really depends on the manufacturer used. Just last year, one of our clients was convinced by a well-meaning relative—the most complicated kind of endorsement during a construction project—to install an Austrian product instead of the air-to-water heat pump we had recommended. The relative focused on the external noise, overlooking that there is a German DIN standard limiting noise emissions; according to this standard, noise must be restricted either way.
Now there is an outdoor unit right in front of the kitchen window, measuring about 1.00 x 1.00 m (3.3 x 3.3 feet) (a real “eye catcher” :rolleyes - with “virtually” no noise, but the indoor noise level has noticeably increased—due to the necessary buffer tank of the system making the heating distribution system so “awkward” that I wonder how maintenance intervals can be carried out without the technician twisting their fingers. In summary, with considerable effort and an additional cost of about €5,000, our client now has significantly higher indoor noise... but since the relative is convinced, so is the client; what more can you want?
For separate systems, we install products from a Japanese manufacturer, and for compact units, we use market-leading systems. Personally, I consider the noise levels of both negligible; I would even say that the constant ignition of a gas condensing boiler is louder. But this perception is subjective, and as someone who understands the necessities involved in building a single-family home better than almost any homeowner, it makes sense to me that there is no “jack-of-all-trades” solution.
Kind regards
Thank you for the detailed response.
With the 3-meter (10-foot) distance, the option of a light well is already out.
If I have seen correctly, the building regulations only allow a gable height of 8.50 m (28 feet). Unfortunately, we have already reached that.
I am currently trying to find out the manufacturer and type of the system.
But you only have that eyecatcher with the heat pump, right? From what I have seen, the mechanical ventilation with heat recovery only has the "grilles" in the wall.
The rest of the equipment (gas boiler, buffer tank, etc.) would be in the basement anyway.
What do you think about option 2 (pipes through the basement ceiling into the utility room and then outside)?
Would the two shafts created in the utility room take up as much space as the mechanical ventilation unit?
With the 3-meter (10-foot) distance, the option of a light well is already out.
If I have seen correctly, the building regulations only allow a gable height of 8.50 m (28 feet). Unfortunately, we have already reached that.
I am currently trying to find out the manufacturer and type of the system.
But you only have that eyecatcher with the heat pump, right? From what I have seen, the mechanical ventilation with heat recovery only has the "grilles" in the wall.
The rest of the equipment (gas boiler, buffer tank, etc.) would be in the basement anyway.
What do you think about option 2 (pipes through the basement ceiling into the utility room and then outside)?
Would the two shafts created in the utility room take up as much space as the mechanical ventilation unit?
Hello,
Hopefully, the architect is not equally uncertain when it comes to sizing the heating and hot water systems.
Best regards
wadi1982 schrieb:The ventilation flow plan according to 1946-6 should already be available.
...We have just received the architect’s first plan.
wadi1982 schrieb:What does that have to do with luck? The central unit of the mechanical ventilation system should always be installed in the utility room.
...That’s why the architect has now changed the plan so that the mechanical ventilation system will be located in the utility room.
wadi1982 schrieb:Building usually involves making compromises between competing demands.
...Reason: The system needs to intake and exhaust air somehow. If we still wanted the mechanical ventilation unit in the basement, we would either have to dig out the corner (which we don’t want) or install so-called ventilation towers (= extra cost and from what I have seen, simply unattractive).
wadi1982 schrieb:Even the light well would be unnecessary!
...
1. Couldn't you just run both ducts (supply / exhaust air) through the basement wall and install a light well at that spot (of course without a basement window).
wadi1982 schrieb:Yes!
Or do the supply and exhaust ducts need to have a certain distance between them?
wadi1982 schrieb:Of course, that is possible!
...
2. If option 1 is not possible, couldn’t the ventilation unit simply be installed in the basement under the utility room? The supply and exhaust air would then be ducted through the floor of the utility room into the basement and vented outside from the utility room (hope this makes sense). Then the openings would also be located high enough.
Hopefully, the architect is not equally uncertain when it comes to sizing the heating and hot water systems.
Best regards
We did not receive plans like these. However, according to the architect, the initial drafts were primarily meant to decide whether the floor plans, doors, and windows suited us.
Technical plans, etc., would come afterward.
But we are just too impatient.
However, we are also building a "standard design," meaning a prefab house with a "standard floor plan."
Knowing that the central controlled ventilation system is always located in the utility room already puts me at ease. During our first meeting, we made it clear that “everything related to technical equipment goes into the basement, so it doesn’t get in the way.”
The heating and hot water sizing will probably be handled by the house manufacturer, from whom we at least received the energy efficiency certificate for the bank.
Technical plans, etc., would come afterward.
But we are just too impatient.
However, we are also building a "standard design," meaning a prefab house with a "standard floor plan."
Knowing that the central controlled ventilation system is always located in the utility room already puts me at ease. During our first meeting, we made it clear that “everything related to technical equipment goes into the basement, so it doesn’t get in the way.”
The heating and hot water sizing will probably be handled by the house manufacturer, from whom we at least received the energy efficiency certificate for the bank.
wadi1982 schrieb:
....The heating and hot water sizing will probably be done by the house manufacturer; at least we received the KfW certificate for the bank from them. Well, that is likely to go badly, because energy-saving regulations/KfW results or boundary conditions must not be used for equipment sizing (not allowed => DIN 4701-10!)
Best regards
Note:
Have the supplier provide a reliable demand/consumption forecast
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